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Author Topic: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons  (Read 14557 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
« Reply #45 on: October 05, 2022, 10:45:21 PM »
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  • BTW, I'm no fan of the Warrens whatsoever.  I think they exhibited and promoted an unhealthy curiosity about the occult, and have probably caused more people to get ensnared in it than they helped get out of it.  Except for very rare occasions, the Church has always avoid publicizing a lot of detail about Exorcisms and the occult.  It's very unhealthy for Catholics to spend any time thinking about it.  We absolutely know (by faith) that they are all around us trying to destroy and ensnare.  But that does not mean we should be focused on them.  We turn our gaze rather to God and Our Blessed Mother.

    Like the analogy from St. Frances de Sales, the demons are like barking dogs on a leash that is held by God.  Their barking is intended to agitate and frighten us, but they advise that we igore them and turn to God and Our Blessed Mother for comfort and protection, but to ignore the demons themselves.  They can do absolutely nothing of their own volition.  But if out of curiosity we approach the dog, THAT is when we ca get bitten and mauled.

    I recall an old Tom & Jerry cartoon episode.  Tom (the cat) keep harrassing this dog Butch.  Butch was on a leash and could only go so far.  At one point, Tom went over and drew a line in the sand to indicate how far the leash could go.  So he would walk right up to the line, antagonize the dog so that it came out barking and would then stand there beating the dog with a baseball bat and other things, safely on the other side of the line, smugly thinking he couldn't be hurt.  Well, at one point, Butch wised up to this.  So he secretly erased the original line and drew a new one that was closer and within the reach of his leash.  Next time Tom tried the stunt, the dog immediately pounce on him and mauled him ... much to Tom's surpise and shock.  That is what all this reminds me of.  By engaging demons, getting too close to them or preoccupied with them, we are putting ourselves at great risk, and it can cause us to lose our peace of soul.  I've known some people who were so "tuned to" the presence of demons that it deeply disturbed their peace and IMO made them more susceptible to opening the door to demonic activity that is otherwise held closed by God.  I agree with the Dimond Brothers when they say that the reason that demons cause various disturbances and things like hauntings, is precisely to get the people to engage with them and thus open the door to greater interference and involvement in their affairs.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #46 on: October 05, 2022, 10:58:13 PM »
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  • BTW, I'm no fan of the Warrens whatsoever.  I think they exhibited and promoted an unhealthy curiosity about the occult, and have probably caused more people to get ensnared in it than they helped get out of it. 
    I think the positive of the Warrens' popularity comes from what you stated about making people realize the preternatural is real. Other than that, I do share your sentiments. I remember watching a tour of their "occult museum" after seeing the Conjuring 3, and thinking to myself how much better it would be if that place burned down rather than serve as a curiosity. It's right back to the same error that comes from the vain curiosity of programs like Ghost Adventures or Ghost Hunters, which encourages people to open doors to the demonic by acknowledging preternatural events. And, in turn, puffs up Catholics to think they can fight the Devil directly. Forgetting just how unimaginably powerful they are as angelic minds.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]


    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #47 on: October 06, 2022, 01:06:12 AM »
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  • "I answer that, As stated in the preceding article, there are two ways of adjuring: one by way of prayer or inducement through reverence of some holy thing: the other by way of compulsion. In the first way it is not lawful to adjure the demons because such a way seems to savor of benevolence or friendship, which it is unlawful to bear towards the demons. As to the second kind of adjuration, which is by compulsion, we may lawfully use it for some purposes, and not for others. For during the course of this life the demons are our adversaries: and their actions are not subject to our disposal but to that of God and the holy angels, because, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 4), "the rebel spirit is ruled by the just spirit." Accordingly we may repulse the demons, as being our enemies, by adjuring them through the power of God's name, lest they do us harm of soul or body, in accord with the Divine power given by Christ, as recorded by Lk. 10:19: "Behold, I have given you power to tread upon serpents and scorpions, and upon all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall hurt you."

    Aquin.: SMT SS Q[90] A[2] Body Para. 2/2
    And Lad, you say,"St. Thomas explained that it's grave sin to issue a deprecatory request to demons because it puts us in fellowship with them."

    Imprecatory = Inducement
    Deprecatory = Compulsion

    Well, you are implying St Thomas says the opposite of what I cited he said. Where can one find such ? Were you paraphrasing ? Misunderstanding perhaps ?

    You are allowing your feelings and emotions bloom into bursts of hyperbole and equating, for example, conjuring with Adjuration.

    It's hard to discuss something with you under those conditions.
    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Offline HolyAngels

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #48 on: October 06, 2022, 01:18:41 AM »
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  • Reply at your leisure, I'm going to bed.
    Pax
    For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places
    Ephesians 6:12

    Offline Kephapaulos

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #49 on: November 13, 2022, 10:12:30 PM »
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  • Hello Ladislaus.

    Did Fr. Ripperger or the Doloran Fathers respond to your letter?
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #50 on: November 14, 2022, 01:27:51 AM »
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  • Hello Ladislaus.

    Did Fr. Ripperger or the Doloran Fathers respond to your letter?

    No, but I did not expect them to ... either because they get lots of e-mail, and sometimes website forms disappear into a "bit bucket" or else because they did not particularly care for what I had to say (or for my tone).

    I believe that their core error is believing we have authority to adjure demons in cases where we have authority over those who might be afflicted by them.  This is not stated anywhere in Traditional sources.  It is required to have authority over the demons themselves (as an Exorcist) to be able to issue commands to them directly.  Otherwise, these prayers take on an imprecatory nature, which is forbidden under pain of grave sin, and incredibly dangerous.

    I own a car and see a thief trying to break in and steal it.  So I go confront the thief and yell at him, "That's my car, so I order you to respect my property and leave."  Chances are that he'll just pull out a gun and blow me away (before I have a chance to call the police) rather than heed my command.  But if I call in the police, the enforcers, they'll take care of the problem for me.

    So, I believe that only acceptable approach would be to invoke our authority over our loved ones by asking their Guardian Angels, or our own Guardian Angel, to ward off the demons.  Or to implore Our Lady based on the same reasons.  Or to implore Our Lord and God the Father.  Certainly the Angels and Our Lady will respect the God-given authority we have over our loved ones ... but there's no expectation that demons will do so, not unless they're forced or constained to by God anyway.

    So the prayers could be adapted/rewritten to implore God, Our Lady, St. Michael, Our Guardian Angel, and the Guardian Angels of our loved ones to enforce the authority, which is God's authority, over our loved ones.

    It is a very dangerous thing to be hurling commands directly at demons, to be engaging them directly, to be contantly trying to "figure out" which demons (by name or other appelation) are afflcting our loved ones.  That can and often does "backfire" on people.  We're best to take the advice of St. Francis de Sales to simply trust in God, having full confidence that these demons can do absolutely nothing except by God's permission.  That one author cited earlier likened the demons to dogs on chains.  They can bark up a storm.  But they can't hurt us.  Not unless we approach them.

    Dimond Brothers made an excellent point in one of their videos.  They theorize that the demons cause various commotions precisely to provoke people to engage with them, and once they do, they're opening up various doors for them to start interfering more directly.

    I trust in God, Our Blessed Mother, the Terror of Demons, from whose presence they flee, St. Michael, and our Guardian Angels.  I also trust in the Blessed Sacramentals of the Church:  St. Benedicts' Medals/Crucifixes, Holy Water, and Blessed Salt.  All of these are far more effective than my attempting to stand here as a bigshot and issue commands to demons.  In fact, I can see the attempt by us in-their-view-inferior mortals to command demons as enraging them.  One saint theorized that a major reason the Demons rebelled against God was due to the knowledge that these human woman would be exalted over them and crowned their Queen.  And the SECOND there's even the slightest inkling of someone acting like a bigshot, taking even the slightest bit of pride in this alleged power over the demons, it's game over.  That's another reason why such things should be left to Exorcists.  Father Bob Smith realizes that it is not Bob Smith the man casting out any demons, but the Church's authority, which is God's authority, and Christ in him, as he bears the image/chracter of Christ when acting In Persona Christi.  Bob Smith couldn't cast a fly out of his bedroom much less a demon out of a human being.

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #51 on: November 14, 2022, 01:38:33 AM »
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  •  One saint theorized that a major reason the Demons rebelled against God was due to the knowledge that these human woman would be exalted over them and crowned their Queen. 


    I believe this is true and I have heard it a number of times

    but I have no reference.

    Do you?
    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #52 on: November 14, 2022, 06:25:58 AM »
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  • I believe this is true and I have heard it a number of times

    but I have no reference.

    Do you?

    No, I can't find it offhand, but I've heard and seen it cited.  I can't recall which saint it was who so theorized.  Or was it Katherine Emmerick / Mary of Agreda or one of those private revelations.

    This rather makes sense to me, that they would despise the thought of being made subject to a human being, who would be their Queen.  I mean, after all, they would realize with their angelic intellects their subordination to God, since after all they did not create themselves.  If they would be so affected, even in the case of someone as exalted as Our Blessed Mother, imagine their reaction to a sinful lay person attempting to issue commands to them, say, with Pablo the Mexican attempting to lord it over them and issue commands.

    I would be surprised if Pablo did not come under serious diabolical influence (and/or control) as a direct result of his "lay exorcist" activities.  Perhaps some Traditional priest should look into whether or not it would make sense to perform at least a minor exorcism on the man.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #53 on: November 14, 2022, 06:32:27 AM »
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  • Not only is the entire terminology of "Deliverance" very Protestant (that term is not known to be in use by Catholics ... until Father Ripperger popularized it with his book), but the very theology implied in having laymen contront demons is highly Protestant.  Prots believe that laymen, through their personal "priesthood", have similar power to that of priests, and therefore have the power to command demons simply by virtue of being "Christians".

    Catholics, on the other hand, have always traditionally approached God with humility, invoking Our Lady, the angels, and the saints for their INTERCESSION.  And that has also been the Traditional attitude toward demons, that, in humility, and acknowledgement of our unworthiness, weakness, and humility, do not presume to deal directly with demons, but pray for God to deal with them.

    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #54 on: November 14, 2022, 09:25:36 AM »
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  • Lest this topic get buried in the lengthy argument on the other thread, 

    which is where?

    Offline Meg

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #55 on: November 14, 2022, 09:58:20 AM »
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  • Not only is the entire terminology of "Deliverance" very Protestant (that term is not known to be in use by Catholics ... until Father Ripperger popularized it with his book), but the very theology implied in having laymen contront demons is highly Protestant.  Prots believe that laymen, through their personal "priesthood", have similar power to that of priests, and therefore have the power to command demons simply by virtue of being "Christians".

    Catholics, on the other hand, have always traditionally approached God with humility, invoking Our Lady, the angels, and the saints for their INTERCESSION.  And that has also been the Traditional attitude toward demons, that, in humility, and acknowledgement of our unworthiness, weakness, and humility, do not presume to deal directly with demons, but pray for God to deal with them.

    I agree. Except that it is, I believe, permissible for laymen to use other methods as well, when confronting evil. The use of holy water, especially epiphany water, is helpful, I have found. Just praying all 15 decades of the rosary helps too. And the St. Michael prayer, in Latin. 

    If you have not ever been confronted by demons, it's difficult to understand how unpleasant it is. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29


    Offline josefamenendez

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #56 on: November 14, 2022, 11:41:11 AM »
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  • Uncharacteristically, Fr Ripperger is promoting the purple scapular of Marie Julie Jehenney, even though she does not have the Consilliar Good Housekeeping Seal of approval. Go figure.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #57 on: November 14, 2022, 01:09:16 PM »
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  • If you have not ever been confronted by demons, it's difficult to understand how unpleasant it is.
    It's awful. Like a suffocating pressure. I 100% agree with your tactics because I've used them and they undoubtedly work. Do not tempt them or even acknowledge them, just pray and use sacramentals.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Cera

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #58 on: November 14, 2022, 01:15:18 PM »
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  • Fr. Ripperger was such a scandal at St. Joan of Arc in Coeur d'Alene, ID that a large group of his parishioners appealed to the bishop to remove or discipline him.  The complaints involved financial mishandlings and inappropriate friendships with female parishioners.  He even had a minion harassing people on his behalf and police were involved.  This man is a public figure in rad-trad circles.  Fr. Ripperger was transferred to Tulsa shortly after the meeting with St. Joan of Arc parishioners with the bishop.
    Without facts and sources this is unfounded gossip.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary

    Offline Meg

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    Re: WARNING: Avoid Ripperger's Prayers Adjuring Demons
    « Reply #59 on: November 14, 2022, 06:54:00 PM »
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  • It's awful. Like a suffocating pressure. I 100% agree with your tactics because I've used them and they undoubtedly work. Do not tempt them or even acknowledge them, just pray and use sacramentals.

    I agree - don't tempt them or acknowledge them, or, I might add, be upset by them, if possible, because that's what they like. It took me awhile to realize that.

    I've been able on occasion to hear demons/ghosts since childhood. Some in my family see them too, which is worse than just hearing them. I used to see it as a curse of sorts, but now I see that Our Lord allows it for our sanctification. It does help me to pray more than I would otherwise. 

    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29