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Author Topic: Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin  (Read 2173 times)

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Offline stevusmagnus

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  • Pope Mirus warns his Neo-Cath flock...

    http://www.catholicculture.org/commentary/otc.cfm?id=1080

    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin

    In certain sources which I refuse to publicize, it is being strenuously argued that sacramental absolution given by the priests of the Society of St. Pius X is perfectly valid. On this basis, one might suppose that the faithful may confess their sins to an SSPX priest and be assured of God’s forgiveness. Unfortunately, this simply is not true.

    Some may assume that absolution by an SSPX priest would be illicit but still valid. If this were true, then the Sacrament of Penance celebrated by an SSPX priest would be unlawful, yet it would still “work”. But again, this is not the case, because the Sacrament of Penance requires ecclesiastical jurisdiction to be valid, and there is not a shred of ecclesiastical jurisdiction in the entire Society. Several popes—the source of all jurisdiction in the Church—have made this perfectly clear. For example, when Pope Benedict lifted the excommunications of the SSPX bishops in a gesture of good will, he emphasized that it was still the case that “the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers cannot legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church” (Ecclesiae Unitatem, 4).

    This renders illicit all the ministries of SSPX bishops and priests, but it also renders some things, including absolution, invalid. When a sacrament is celebrated invalidly, it simply does not take effect. What this means is that SSPX bishops and priests lack the sheer ability to absolve from sin—except in danger of death, as we will see below.

    Canon 966 in the Code of Canon Law states the matter succinctly: “For the valid absolution of sins, it is required that, in addition to the power of order, the minister has the faculty to exercise that power in respect of the faithful to whom he gives absolution.” The “faculty” is a grant of jurisdiction to hear confessions from someone who has jurisdiction. This could be the pope (who has universal jurisdiction), the local bishop (who has jurisdiction from the pope in a particular region), or a religious superior (who has jurisdiction from the pope within his order and/or for express circuмstances). Thus faculties can be Apostolic (papal), episcopal, or regular (from a religious superior).

    The second paragraph of Canon 966 explains that this jurisdiction can be conferred either by law or by “a concession issued by the competent authority”. By law, all priests can offer absolution to a penitent in danger of death. All other jurisdiction or faculties must be expressly conferred. And, as should be obvious, a bishop or religious superior can grant faculties (jurisdiction) only within the scope of his own jurisdiction. Thus, for example, a religious priest may be able to absolve members of his own order but not lay persons in the region where he exercises his ministry, unless he has faculties from the local bishop (which are often granted in more-or-less blanket form).

    However, there is a bit of a twist with respect to bishops, because not only does the pope have the universal faculty for confession by virtue of his office, but Canon 967 accords universal faculties by law to cardinals and bishops, who accordingly can hear confessions and grant absolution throughout the world. Therefore, a bishop can (and commonly does, I believe) grant faculties to his priests to hear confessions anywhere in the world. But as the second paragraph of Canon 967 makes clear, such faculties are operative only if not denied by the local ordinary. The local ordinary has the authority by virtue of his supreme local jurisdiction to deny the use of the universal faculties to any visiting priest and even to a visiting bishop. In this sense, then, the universal faculties of bishops and priests, when granted either by law or by specific concession, are dependent on the acquiescence of the local ordinary, which is presumed unless otherwise stated. There is no such dependence for the pope or for cardinals, who represent the universal Church. [Note that this paragraph is a change made at 10:25 pm on May 27th to correct technical inaccuracies in my original explanation of episcopal and priestly faculties under the current Code of Canon Law.]

    As the example of the religious priest above indicates, jurisdiction is not purely territorial. It can also be limited in scope in other ways, and it almost always is. Thus a pope or bishop may grant faculties in some matters and not others, and in fact it is usually the case that both the pope and the bishops reserve certain kinds of cases to themselves. In these cases, the priest not only may not give absolution, he can not. That is, he is incapable of doing so.

    The point in this context is that the validity of confession depends in part on jurisdiction (faculties). Unfortunately, all SSPX bishops are illicitly ordained; they incurred excommunication immediately upon ordination, and though the excommunication has been lifted, they are still operating illicitly. This is because they lack canonical jurisdiction, as all recent popes have plainly said (see again the quotation from Pope Benedict cited above). Therefore, though they may claim to grant faculties for confession to their priests, they do not possess the requisite jurisdiction to do so. Nor, indeed, do they have the requisite jurisdiction to grant valid absolution themselves. They do not have it by law, as their episcopates are illicit, and they do not have it by concession from the pope. For this reason, the following conclusion is inescapable:

    Unless you are in danger of death, do not confess your sins to an SSPX priest. If you do, it will sound like you are being absolved, and you may think you are being absolved, but in fact the Sacrament of Penance will not “happen”. This invalidity is exactly like a layman donning vestments to say Mass. Things may look and sound the same, but the ritual will be empty of effect.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #1 on: May 30, 2013, 04:24:39 AM »
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  • Quote
    Unless you are in danger of death, do not confess your sins to an SSPX priest. If you do, it will sound like you are being absolved, and you may think you are being absolved, but in fact the Sacrament of Penance will not “happen”. This invalidity is exactly like a layman donning vestments to say Mass. Things may look and sound the same, but the ritual will be empty of effect.


    Right, and there is no crisis either.

    "...and since audacity is their chief characteristic, there is no conclusion of any kind from which they shrink or which they do not thrust forward with pertinacity and assurance." - On the Doctrines of the Modernists, Pope St. Pius X



    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #2 on: May 30, 2013, 10:43:37 AM »
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  • Notwithstanding the issue at hand, this clown Dr. Mirrus did once post that you have to agree with the pope.  He then went on to say that you can't highlight some docuмent from the past that seems to contradict the pope because that's just not something that is done.  His reasoning was that if you think something a pope in the past wrote says something different or contradicts one of the post-Vatican II popes it's because you - the reader - are misinterpreting things.

    At that point, I realized that Dr. Mirrus is a shill and not an intellectually stimulating person who can't even entertain - he's far below the stature of a Fr. Z and even less interesting than James Larsen (who also makes the same nonsensical comments about specific papal encyclicals).

    I wish Dr. Mirrus would just explain to us that Vatican II was not a rupture.  I am actually starting to think of Vatican II not as a rupture but as a revolutionary act where the Church's hierarchy openly rebelled against the Holy Ghost and created a new church.

    I am convinced, however, that if Dr. Mirrus was to explain how Vatican II was not a rupture he would just quote Pope Emeritus Benedict and say "Can't you see it right here - he says so!  What are you?  More Catholic than the pope?"

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #3 on: May 30, 2013, 10:57:57 AM »
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  • Did you guys catch Dr. Mirus's heresy?  He said the source of jurisdiction is the pope.  

    Guys, jurisdiction should be seen as the answer to a "who sent you" question.  Jurisdiction belongs technically to the Church but correctly in all Catholic senses to Our Lord and Savior Who can also be referred to as the Holy Church.  Our Lord provides Jurisdiction.  Prior to Vatican II, popes understood this.  

    Offline Stubborn

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #4 on: May 30, 2013, 11:56:11 AM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    Did you guys catch Dr. Mirus's heresy?  He said the source of jurisdiction is the pope.  

    Guys, jurisdiction should be seen as the answer to a "who sent you" question.  Jurisdiction belongs technically to the Church but correctly in all Catholic senses to Our Lord and Savior Who can also be referred to as the Holy Church.  Our Lord provides Jurisdiction.  Prior to Vatican II, popes understood this.  



    The article could just as easily have been written by anyone of the libs on FE.  
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Charlemagne

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #5 on: May 30, 2013, 12:11:46 PM »
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  • The "jurisdiction" argument made by Conciliarists is so played, as is "authority." The Presiders of the Conciliar Church - with their "jurisdiction" - will "absolve" just about any sin confessed, no matter how grave, with some BS "penance" such as "Look into your heart and consider the injustice committed against your neighbor." What they hardly ever mention is the injustice committed against God. And I can't even count how many times during my NO years I actually had to remind Presiders to "absolve" me before I left the Confessional.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline drivocek

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #6 on: May 30, 2013, 12:30:16 PM »
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  • Ecclesia supplet.

    Offline Napoli

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #7 on: May 30, 2013, 12:39:03 PM »
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  • Theology aside. This is often a stumbling block for many who want to reject the concilliar church. There is this paranoia about not getting the sacraments. This validity question is spread by the new church and there henchmen until fear keeps many in the concilliar church. It's devious.
    Regina Angelorum, ora pro nobis!


    Offline SJB

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #8 on: May 30, 2013, 01:23:03 PM »
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  • Quote
    Unless you are in danger of death, do not confess your sins to an SSPX priest. If you do, it will sound like you are being absolved, and you may think you are being absolved, but in fact the Sacrament of Penance will not “happen”. This invalidity is exactly like a layman donning vestments to say Mass. Things may look and sound the same, but the ritual will be empty of effect.

    I think "danger of death" needs to be defined here. I believe it can be much broader than simply "lying on your death bed."
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Stubborn

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #9 on: May 30, 2013, 02:53:47 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote
    Unless you are in danger of death, do not confess your sins to an SSPX priest. If you do, it will sound like you are being absolved, and you may think you are being absolved, but in fact the Sacrament of Penance will not “happen”. This invalidity is exactly like a layman donning vestments to say Mass. Things may look and sound the same, but the ritual will be empty of effect.

    I think "danger of death" needs to be defined here. I believe it can be much broader than simply "lying on your death bed."



    Actually, invalid from a "layman donning vestments" is invalid whether one is in danger of death or not - but as goes everything else with the NO, there's always a contradictory alternative which is perfectly ok and acceptable - provided it's suited to fit the occasion as needed - hence confessions are only valid from a "layman donning vestments" if you have a personal urgency, but invalid if you have no urgency.

    This makes validity dependent upon the individual, not upon the faculties of the "layman donning vestments".  Typical NO double talk...........the article, not you SJB.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline SJB

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #10 on: May 30, 2013, 03:12:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    Quote from: SJB
    Quote
    Unless you are in danger of death, do not confess your sins to an SSPX priest. If you do, it will sound like you are being absolved, and you may think you are being absolved, but in fact the Sacrament of Penance will not “happen”. This invalidity is exactly like a layman donning vestments to say Mass. Things may look and sound the same, but the ritual will be empty of effect.

    I think "danger of death" needs to be defined here. I believe it can be much broader than simply "lying on your death bed."



    Actually, invalid from a "layman donning vestments" is invalid whether one is in danger of death or not - but as goes everything else with the NO, there's always a contradictory alternative which is perfectly ok and acceptable - provided it's suited to fit the occasion as needed - hence confessions are only valid from a "layman donning vestments" if you have a personal urgency, but invalid if you have no urgency.

    This makes validity dependent upon the individual, not upon the faculties of the "layman donning vestments".  Typical NO double talk...........the article, not you SJB.

    That's not what he is saying. He is saying the Sacrament of Confession is invalid because the SSPX priest has no jurisdiction to hear confessions. My point is that Mirus is assuming a very limited "danger of death" to prove the SSPX cannot absolve licitly nor validly.

    Mirus merely compares the certainty of invalidity with a "layman donning vestments." He is wrong, but lets try not to misrepresent his position when attempting to refute it.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #11 on: May 30, 2013, 03:58:44 PM »
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  • Mirus also made the allusion that a person who is going to confession in an SSPX chapel by an SSPX priest is going through the motions the same way a novus ordite presider would.

    This is silly.

    First, what are the chances a novus ordite would even think "Hey, I want to go to Confession?"  Rememeber, the novus ordo calls it "reconciliation" - as in God and man becoming cool with each other again.

    Second, very few novus ordo buildings have the confessional box, which is standard in the SSPX.

    Third, the novus ordo usually has their own "reconciliation" on Saturday afternoons, so wouldn't the wandering new churcher be startled to see people in line for confession?

    Fourth, there are bound to be girls in line for confession.  The novus ordites is going to go wide eyed with he sees those mantillas.  He'll say to himself, "This place if a cult!" and walk out.  It will never even occur to him that his grandmother (assuming the new churcher isn't a protestant "convert") wore a mantilla every time she stepped into a Catholic Church.

    Offline Napoli

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #12 on: May 30, 2013, 11:25:42 PM »
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  • Lol. It's true. I have been told that there was no need to confess my venial sins and that my mortal ones were not that bad. I was told God is merciful. There is no hell. Someone needs to question the validity of Novus Ordo confessions. I am glad I am out of that lukewarm cesspool.
    Regina Angelorum, ora pro nobis!

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #13 on: May 30, 2013, 11:44:14 PM »
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  • Yes, all SSPX and Trad priests, who actually care about sin and confession, are simply going through the motions, simulating absolutions left and right and Trads who examine their consciences and take sin seriously are in perpetual states of mortal sin. Meanwhile, the Novus Ordites who bother to still go to confession to Fr. Slaphappy are clean as snow.

    If you point this out to someone like Mirus, he'll just say, "yep." He'll say you are bordering on the Donatist heresy and intentions don't matter at all. At that matters is that Fr. Happyjoy got permission from Bishop Heterodox to hear confessions.

    Neo-Caths are the most clueless nearsighted legalists I've ever seen, except when it comes to them, libs, and non-Catholics. Then they are all tolerant, merciful, and forgiving.

    Offline Charlemagne

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    Warning: An SSPX Priest Is Incapable of Absolving You from Sin
    « Reply #14 on: May 31, 2013, 12:07:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    Yes, all SSPX and Trad priests, who actually care about sin and confession, are simply going through the motions, simulating absolutions left and right and Trads who examine their consciences and take sin seriously are in perpetual states of mortal sin. Meanwhile, the Novus Ordites who bother to still go to confession to Fr. Slaphappy are clean as snow.

    If you point this out to someone like Mirus, he'll just say, "yep." He'll say you are bordering on the Donatist heresy and intentions don't matter at all. At that matters is that Fr. Happyjoy got permission from Bishop Heterodox to hear confessions.

    Neo-Caths are the most clueless nearsighted legalists I've ever seen, except when it comes to them, libs, and non-Catholics. Then they are all tolerant, merciful, and forgiving.


    When my family and I moved to our current home, our neighbor, a Novus Ordite, asked us where we attend Mass. I said, "SSPX." She said, "Oh, they're schis..." and stopped herself. Now, I firmly believe in "Love thy neighbor," but it's a good thing she cut herself off because she was about to get an unsolicited lesson in supplied jurisdiction from yours truly.
    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine