Author Topic: Waking up late to the Crisis  (Read 1663 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Waking up late to the Crisis
« on: August 09, 2015, 05:43:09 PM »
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  • Someone posted on Facebook today:

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    It's really sad to learn that a high percentage of Catholic married couples use contraception which is a mortal sin and leads to Hell, yet very few Priests ever make any mention of this grave sin. Seems like the Church isn't really interested in saving souls when it just keeps quiet on this issue. Oh how remiss of me not to remember, you can't mention contraception as it might offend the feelings of many hell bound "catholics"!


    Matthew - I guess you might say there's a Crisis in the Church. Hmm...that's what Traditionalists have been saying since 1970. I'm glad you see it now -- better late than never! Seriously, though, that is precisely why I have to be a Traditional Catholic. I need to go to Mass where the priest is going to give us Catholic teaching, without any kid gloves. And I don't need a "new Mass" either -- the old one worked just fine to form thousands of saints. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it.
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    Matthew - I've seen the fruits of Vatican II, and they sure have been found wanting. Go to any Novus Ordo parish and you can observe just what you said -- people there look and act just like "everyone else" 1 or 2 kids, "starting a family" after several years, etc. That isn't Catholic! People used to know and make fun of Catholics for having large families. If you aren't getting that ribbing from non-Catholics anymore, that should set off some serious red flags! Long story short: Catholics have to be "weird" in the World's eyes, otherwise we're in the world AND OF the world.
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    Offline RomanCatholic1953

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    « Reply #1 on: August 09, 2015, 09:28:36 PM »
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  • I am preparing a future post named: The Tales of Two First Holy Communion
    Classes fifty years apart.

    In 1958 at a brand new Parochial school yet unfinished an endless
    stream of boys and girls entering the church for their First Communion.


    In 2008 just a handful of boys and girls just enough to fill the front
    of the Sanctuary after they received their First Communion. This at
    a Parochial School in a  large mid western U.S. City.

    And I will need someone explain what is really wrong with these
    pictures.


    Offline MMagdala

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    « Reply #2 on: August 19, 2015, 02:21:22 AM »
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  • And I will add to that:
    2015:  Mixed Anglo and Latino parish, not mid western city, but a major metro region in the U.S.   This particular parish may be 40-45% Latino (N.O.)  There is a Spanish Mass on Sundays and Spanish catechesis during the school year, as well as a Spanish-speaking assistant pastor always on staff.  In other words, they are being ministered to; they are not being neglected or ignored.

    So called "First" Communion consisted of 1 middle-school aged boy, 1 middle-school aged girl, and one elementary grade girl (definitely not age 6-8, though, more like age 9 or 10).  It is not possible that the diocesan families are not using contraception.  But just as bad, to me, is the untimeliness of this all.  What the heck was happening when these children were age 7?  Why weren't they receiving First Communion instruction then?  (And no, these are not recent immigrants.)

    Now, I shouldn't totally single those families out, because how many Anglo kids were there receiving any sacraments at this parish?  Zero.  It's true that most of the Anglos are older and most of the Latinos include a larger span of ages, from young to old, but still, it is not believable that there are no Anglo married couples of childbearing age in the parish.  Not believable.

    "Confirmation,"  2015:
    One confirmand.  One.   Since I wasn't there, I don't know the ethnic background of the individual, just that he was of some minor age.

    I learned of this through a friend who attends that parish and has a position there, but in the past I have seen the same thing there when I was asked to come in specially to sing on a couple of occasions.  

    So obviously one issue is the absence of children.  But the other issue is the healthy size of the children's catechetical classes which is not matched by sacramental initiation.  Why would you send your children to catechesis but neglect their sacramental life?  Why?

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #3 on: August 19, 2015, 09:15:53 AM »
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  • The fact of the matter is, contraception IS accepted by the world, and in fact the world considers contraception to be responsible and virtuous.

    Virtuous economically, virtuous to "mother earth", and so forth.

    Those who have all the children God sends are looked down upon as irresponsible, stupid, fundamentalist "Duggar wannabes" and I chose each of those words carefully. Irresponsible, as in getting a DUI. A poor life choice. Stupid, as in "low end" like getting tattoos, living in a filthy trailer, having premarital sex, or taking drugs.

    That's what they think of us Catholics.

    So IF we're going to believe otherwise, and let our lives match our beliefs, we ARE GOING to be looked at in a negative way. We ARE going to be considered crazy.

    We have to be willing to accept this stigma, for love of Christ the King. Our King tells us to NOT fit in, in this wicked world. Are we going to love the world, or Christ our King?
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    Offline OHCA

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    « Reply #4 on: August 19, 2015, 12:10:16 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Those who have all the children God sends are looked down upon as irresponsible, stupid, fundamentalist "Duggar wannabes" and I chose each of those words carefully. Irresponsible, as in getting a DUI. A poor life choice. Stupid, as in "low end" like getting tattoos, living in a filthy trailer, having premarital sex, or taking drugs.


    Very true that this is how the world, especially pompous heretics, view us.  As an example, when I first learned that there is a "trad" world alive and well, I wondered whether it may be at all prudent to move to St. Mary's, KS.  One thing I did was checked it out on topix.  Heretics were on there saying the most despicable things along these very lines.


    Offline Croix de Fer

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    « Reply #5 on: August 19, 2015, 04:39:18 PM »
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  • The Conciliar church is more concerned about keeping the money coming in their collection baskets every Sunday, and making people feel good, rather than speaking the truth.
    Blessed be the Lord my God, who teacheth my hands to fight, and my fingers to war. ~ Psalms 143:1 (Douay-Rheims)

    Offline CathMomof7

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    « Reply #6 on: August 25, 2015, 10:35:16 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    The fact of the matter is, contraception IS accepted by the world, and in fact the world considers contraception to be responsible and virtuous.

    Virtuous economically, virtuous to "mother earth", and so forth.

    Those who have all the children God sends are looked down upon as irresponsible, stupid, fundamentalist "Duggar wannabes" and I chose each of those words carefully. Irresponsible, as in getting a DUI. A poor life choice. Stupid, as in "low end" like getting tattoos, living in a filthy trailer, having premarital sex, or taking drugs.

    That's what they think of us Catholics.

    So IF we're going to believe otherwise, and let our lives match our beliefs, we ARE GOING to be looked at in a negative way. We ARE going to be considered crazy.

    We have to be willing to accept this stigma, for love of Christ the King. Our King tells us to NOT fit in, in this wicked world. Are we going to love the world, or Christ our King?


    Everyday, my husband gets picked, poked, laughed at, and talked about.  I don't really hear it because I am at home.  These taunts come in the form of several assaults:

    "Why are you working two jobs when your wife could get a job?"

    "Aren't your kids good enough to go to public school?"

    "What? Another kid? Don't you know how to prevent that?"

    "What? Your daughter is not taking hip-hop classes? Or being a cheerleader?"

    And these are just the things he hears from Catholic friends and co-workers.  The non-Catholics comments are not suitable for printing here.

    50 years ago, it was not as hard to bear this cross as it is today.  In those days, a man could work at the mill and support 6 or 8 or 10 children.  You could buy a modest home with three bedrooms: a room for the boys and one for the girls: and be pretty much like everyone else.  You could buy a station wagon and pile as many kids in there as you wanted.  You didn't have to turn off the TV for fear of porn or foul language.  Your kids could go to Catholic school for little or no cost.  Aside from the large families and not eating meat on Fridays, most Catholics in public were about like everyone else.

    Today, not only are large families peculiar, thanks to TV shows, they are a laughing stock.  The parents are viewed as either crazy or oppressive.  You can't send your kids to the Catholic schools anymore, let alone the public schools, so you have to homeschool.  Mom has got to stay home to do that, and since most of us are not Dr.s or lawyers, that puts us straight into the poor house, foodstamp lines, and at the WIC office.  And that is a mark of irresponsibility and laziness.  That puts another crazy mark on your forehead.  Throw in the 12 or 15 passenger van and the boycotting of Disney and MTV, your family is bone fide weirdo.

    Most NO Catholics can't handle this.  Some trads can't either.  


    Offline jen51

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    « Reply #7 on: August 25, 2015, 11:15:11 AM »
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  • CathMomof7 described it well. We only have one child on the way, so we haven't experienced nearly as much as she talks about, but we've certainly got our feet wet.

    Both my husband and I get a lot of scorn for only having 1 income, especially since we don't have children yet. I'm looked upon as lazy, and he's looked upon as a doop because we want to uphold traditional values, which includes wife staying home even without children.

    With our first little one coming soon, we've already had to reject many of my of our parents suggestions and assumptions about how our kids will be raised and have offended them many times by having to say things like, "we won't let the kids stay with you if you're going to have the TV on or keeping them busy with Disney movies." I grew up staying the weekend with grandma and grandpa, and it's a nice thought.  But with how perverse our world is, and how trapped my parents are in it, there will sadly be no weekend stays for the kids at grandma and grandpa's unless we are there too. My parents cannot understand this, naturally, and it has caused a lot of friction.

    The sacraments are comforting. The daily Rosary is a great consolation, and the hope of heaven gives us much needed strength to swim against the current.
    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #8 on: August 25, 2015, 11:22:45 AM »
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  • But it is a test. A test we must pass.

    God is asking this sacrifice of us. He chose that we would all be born in this age, so He's certainly giving us the graces we need to be faithful.

    If we are not faithful, we can't blame the world, "how difficult it is today", the flesh, or the devil. We can -- and will -- only blame ourselves at our Particular Judgment, and fling ourselves into hell.

    That's how souls go into hell, by the way. When they get even a glimpse of God, they see their own evil, and can't stand to be in His presence. Souls actually cast THEMSELVES into hell voluntarily.

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    Offline TKGS

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    « Reply #9 on: August 25, 2015, 11:37:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: jen51
    CathMomof7 described it well. We only have one child on the way, so we haven't experienced nearly as much as she talks about...


    Yes, the first one is a joy for everyone.  The second one brings smiles to everyone's faces.  If the first two are boy and girl, the third one brings scorn.  When people found out my wife was pregnant with our third (many years ago) the first comment out of most of my co-workers' mouths was, "I thought you already had a boy and a girl."  No smiles and congrats on this one.  Though people were accepting of our third, fourth, and fifth, it was more a polite acceptance.  The number of genuinely happy people could be counted on one or two hands, and that included our extended families.

    Offline jen51

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    « Reply #10 on: August 25, 2015, 12:25:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: jen51
    CathMomof7 described it well. We only have one child on the way, so we haven't experienced nearly as much as she talks about...


    Yes, the first one is a joy for everyone.  The second one brings smiles to everyone's faces.  If the first two are boy and girl, the third one brings scorn.  When people found out my wife was pregnant with our third (many years ago) the first comment out of most of my co-workers' mouths was, "I thought you already had a boy and a girl."  No smiles and congrats on this one.  Though people were accepting of our third, fourth, and fifth, it was more a polite acceptance.  The number of genuinely happy people could be counted on one or two hands, and that included our extended families.


    Things should not be this way!

    On a different note, what you said brings to mind something that I think is rather bizarre, and that is our cultures tendency to both demonize and worship children at the same time. Those that seem to love themselves and despise the idea of many children often over-indulge the one child, or two, and their everyday doings are wrapped up in their child's pleasures to an inordinate degree. Mom's won't stay home to nourish their children, but they will work outside of the home and provide their child with their every worldly desire. In other words, they shamelessly spoil their child(ren). It's a very warped and selfish form of caring for a child. Perhaps it comes from some noble, natural desire, for most mothers want to give generously to their child. Our culture has twisted this motherly nobility, though. Unless a mother knows and loves God and his ways, she cannot give generously to her child. She feeds him poison instead of bread.
    I suppose I shouldn't speak only of mothers here, but fathers too. I speak of parenting failures in regards to a mothers duty because it's what I can best relate to.... being a woman and all. :)

    A Catholic family with many children, or one that is completely open to life with one child or two,  looks at raising children differently, or should. Instead of making sure they are spoiled with latest trends, we are making sure that they are properly fed and clothed, and beyond that we are most concerned with teaching them to Love God and setting them up to get to heaven. Most often this means "depriving" them of many worldly things and keeping the child off of a pedestal.  This will inevitably make the child stand out- which is OK. When it comes time for them to have children, they'll know the drill (or we can only pray).
    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #11 on: August 25, 2015, 01:57:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: CathMomof7
    Quote from: Matthew
    The fact of the matter is, contraception IS accepted by the world, and in fact the world considers contraception to be responsible and virtuous.

    Virtuous economically, virtuous to "mother earth", and so forth.

    Those who have all the children God sends are looked down upon as irresponsible, stupid, fundamentalist "Duggar wannabes" and I chose each of those words carefully. Irresponsible, as in getting a DUI. A poor life choice. Stupid, as in "low end" like getting tattoos, living in a filthy trailer, having premarital sex, or taking drugs.

    That's what they think of us Catholics.

    So IF we're going to believe otherwise, and let our lives match our beliefs, we ARE GOING to be looked at in a negative way. We ARE going to be considered crazy.

    We have to be willing to accept this stigma, for love of Christ the King. Our King tells us to NOT fit in, in this wicked world. Are we going to love the world, or Christ our King?


    Everyday, my husband gets picked, poked, laughed at, and talked about.  I don't really hear it because I am at home.  These taunts come in the form of several assaults:

    "Why are you working two jobs when your wife could get a job?"

    "Aren't your kids good enough to go to public school?"

    "What? Another kid? Don't you know how to prevent that?"

    "What? Your daughter is not taking hip-hop classes? Or being a cheerleader?"

    And these are just the things he hears from Catholic friends and co-workers.  The non-Catholics comments are not suitable for printing here.

    50 years ago, it was not as hard to bear this cross as it is today.  In those days, a man could work at the mill and support 6 or 8 or 10 children.  You could buy a modest home with three bedrooms: a room for the boys and one for the girls: and be pretty much like everyone else.  You could buy a station wagon and pile as many kids in there as you wanted.  You didn't have to turn off the TV for fear of porn or foul language.  Your kids could go to Catholic school for little or no cost.  Aside from the large families and not eating meat on Fridays, most Catholics in public were about like everyone else.

    Today, not only are large families peculiar, thanks to TV shows, they are a laughing stock.  The parents are viewed as either crazy or oppressive.  You can't send your kids to the Catholic schools anymore, let alone the public schools, so you have to homeschool.  Mom has got to stay home to do that, and since most of us are not Dr.s or lawyers, that puts us straight into the poor house, foodstamp lines, and at the WIC office.  And that is a mark of irresponsibility and laziness.  That puts another crazy mark on your forehead.  Throw in the 12 or 15 passenger van and the boycotting of Disney and MTV, your family is bone fide weirdo.

    Most NO Catholics can't handle this.  Some trads can't either.  



    God bless both you and your husband!!!  May your reward be great.  I wish I could congratulate you in person.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #12 on: August 25, 2015, 02:29:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: jen51
    CathMomof7 described it well. We only have one child on the way, so we haven't experienced nearly as much as she talks about, but we've certainly got our feet wet.

    Both my husband and I get a lot of scorn for only having 1 income, especially since we don't have children yet. I'm looked upon as lazy, and he's looked upon as a doop because we want to uphold traditional values, which includes wife staying home even without children.

    With our first little one coming soon, we've already had to reject many of my of our parents suggestions and assumptions about how our kids will be raised and have offended them many times by having to say things like, "we won't let the kids stay with you if you're going to have the TV on or keeping them busy with Disney movies." I grew up staying the weekend with grandma and grandpa, and it's a nice thought.  But with how perverse our world is, and how trapped my parents are in it, there will sadly be no weekend stays for the kids at grandma and grandpa's unless we are there too. My parents cannot understand this, naturally, and it has caused a lot of friction.

    The sacraments are comforting. The daily Rosary is a great consolation, and the hope of heaven gives us much needed strength to swim against the current.


    God bless you jen51!  Keep up your good work.  Children are souls God put in YOUR hands.  Once they get warped it's almost impossible to undo.  Kudos to you and your husband.  The poison is everywhere as you know.  Also if you take the child or children to playgrounds stay close.  I always encounter a stranger lurking in the background seemingly looking for an opportunity to snatch a child.  One drove off on his moped as soon as a cop pulled into the parking lot.  Mostly single men just sitting in their car or in a picnic area doing absolutely nothing but sitting and waiting.  

    We had a cashier stick her finger in our babies mouth once?  Everyone always takes the liberty of touching them if we give them half a chance.  It is good to be prepared ahead for such things.  A lady pulled the baby from my wife's arms as she was breast-feeding.  It is really ridiculous.  Things you would never imagine happening being the norm.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #13 on: August 25, 2015, 02:32:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: jen51
    CathMomof7 described it well. We only have one child on the way, so we haven't experienced nearly as much as she talks about...


    Yes, the first one is a joy for everyone.  The second one brings smiles to everyone's faces.  If the first two are boy and girl, the third one brings scorn.  When people found out my wife was pregnant with our third (many years ago) the first comment out of most of my co-workers' mouths was, "I thought you already had a boy and a girl."  No smiles and congrats on this one.  Though people were accepting of our third, fourth, and fifth, it was more a polite acceptance.  The number of genuinely happy people could be counted on one or two hands, and that included our extended families.


    So incredibly sad.  Unreal.  Makes me wish I got married earlier so I could have had numerous children.  I rather enjoy being scorned for a good reason.  Plus inwardly they probably regret not having any/more.  That is why they are always grabbing for other people's children and slobbering all over them if you give them half a chance.  They are like vultures if I walk away for a second and only my wife is with them.  Incredible.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #14 on: August 25, 2015, 02:35:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: jen51
    Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: jen51
    CathMomof7 described it well. We only have one child on the way, so we haven't experienced nearly as much as she talks about...


    Yes, the first one is a joy for everyone.  The second one brings smiles to everyone's faces.  If the first two are boy and girl, the third one brings scorn.  When people found out my wife was pregnant with our third (many years ago) the first comment out of most of my co-workers' mouths was, "I thought you already had a boy and a girl."  No smiles and congrats on this one.  Though people were accepting of our third, fourth, and fifth, it was more a polite acceptance.  The number of genuinely happy people could be counted on one or two hands, and that included our extended families.


    Things should not be this way!

    On a different note, what you said brings to mind something that I think is rather bizarre, and that is our cultures tendency to both demonize and worship children at the same time. Those that seem to love themselves and despise the idea of many children often over-indulge the one child, or two, and their everyday doings are wrapped up in their child's pleasures to an inordinate degree. Mom's won't stay home to nourish their children, but they will work outside of the home and provide their child with their every worldly desire. In other words, they shamelessly spoil their child(ren). It's a very warped and selfish form of caring for a child. Perhaps it comes from some noble, natural desire, for most mothers want to give generously to their child. Our culture has twisted this motherly nobility, though. Unless a mother knows and loves God and his ways, she cannot give generously to her child. She feeds him poison instead of bread.
    I suppose I shouldn't speak only of mothers here, but fathers too. I speak of parenting failures in regards to a mothers duty because it's what I can best relate to.... being a woman and all. :)

    A Catholic family with many children, or one that is completely open to life with one child or two,  looks at raising children differently, or should. Instead of making sure they are spoiled with latest trends, we are making sure that they are properly fed and clothed, and beyond that we are most concerned with teaching them to Love God and setting them up to get to heaven. Most often this means "depriving" them of many worldly things and keeping the child off of a pedestal.  This will inevitably make the child stand out- which is OK. When it comes time for them to have children, they'll know the drill (or we can only pray).


    Any advice on how I can take my child off a pedestal?  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

     

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