Author Topic: Voris rebukes SSPX for stance on new mass (Read 4333 times)

Stubborn · « **on:** August 20, 2015, 10:06:56 AM »

Not sure where to start on this ignorance, but this is appropriate:

http://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/the-vortexdo-not-go-to-mass

The Vortex—Do NOT Go to Mass

Well, let's get straight to it, shall we?

The SSPX, the Society of St. Pius X — a group of clerics and bishops who do not exercise any legitimate ministry in the Catholic Church owing to their refusal to submit to the authority and jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff, owing to their doctrinal issues regarding Vatican II — have recently posted a video which says all you need to hear.

By the way, that assessment of the SSPX is that of Pope Benedict, merely repeated by ChurchMilitant.com.

First, here are the words of the video, full screen so you can see them for yourselves.

"This is the reason Catholics are not obliged to attend the New Mass to fulfill their Sunday precept."

and

"The New Mass is to be completely avoided as they understand it is an offense against God."

Lest anyone say we are misquoting or misrepresenting these quotes, here they are straight from the mouth of an official spokesman priest for the SSPX U.S.A. District straight from the home page of the SSPX.

[Watch video here]http://gloria.tv/media/DrSLc9B5U6s

Earlier the priest says the New Mass is a danger to souls.

Now stop for a moment and consider what this priest is saying: The New Mass, meaning the Mass of Pope Paul VI, the Novus Ordo, is an offense against God. A Mass approved by and offered by the popes of Our Blessed Lord’s Holy Catholic Church and nearly every single bishop is an offense against God. Further, you are instructed not to go to Mass on Sunday if you must go to a Novus Ordo, New Mass.

This is a classic case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Sure, there are abuses that occur in the New Mass owing to all kinds of issues that we point out here on the Vortex all the time.

But those abuses are just that — abuses. And they are to be placed at the feet of errant bishops, lazy unfaithful priests, dissident theologians and so forth. But to tell Catholics to stay home and not attend Mass on Sunday and refuse to fulfill their Sunday obligation to assist at the sacrifice of the Mass is beyond imagining. To call the Mass an "offense against God"? Are you serious? To encourage people to commit mortal sin by refusing to fulfill their Sunday obligation?

But it's good that this video is out there because now the mask can finally be taken off this renegade outfit.

Let us share with you what Pope Benedict says of them: "In order to make this clear once again: Until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church."

Those are the words of Peter himself, the Supreme Pontiff. He continued, "This will make it clear that the problems now to be addressed [by the SSPX] are essentially doctrinal in nature and concern primarily the acceptance of the Second Vatican Council."

The SSPX has played this game for decades now that their major issue has been the Traditional Mass versus the Novus Ordo, the New Mass. And while they certainly do have issues with the New Mass, their real problems — as the Pope himself says — are that they reject the Second Vatican Council — not have some questions about it, not want to sit down for discussions and more clarity, but doctrinal issues — doctrinal issues which place them outside the Church, not in full communion, as His Holiness phrased it — which is shorthand for schism.

The cheerleaders for the SSPX would have you believe that various prelates support them without an issue or doubt. Really?

Do they really expect that these prelates would support the notion that you must stay at home on Sunday and refuse to go to Mass and just say a private Rosary because the Mass you would be attending is the New Mass? Really?

Would these prelates that they pretend are all in on the SSPX — would they really say that the New Mass is an offense — an offense — against God?

Yet this is exactly, precisely, without any ambiguity, no clarification needed, what the official mouthpiece of the SSPX says — right out loud for the whole world to hear: The New Mass is to be avoided; you are not obliged to attend it on Sundays; it is an offense against God.

Even in the face of the Pope himself, they say they pray for him and put his picture up in their buildings, and they obey him — until they don't. They decry the Mass. They encourage people to mortal sin. They defy the Pope. They refuse the obedience due him.

If that doesn't constitute a schism, pray tell, what does?

Even Bp. Robert Morlino of Madison, Wisconsin had to issue a statement last week saying that this group — the SSPX — was to be avoided: "Have nothing to do with them."

He instructed:

The priests of the SSPX, because for the most part they were ordained illicitly (i.e., by a bishop who had no jurisdiction over them and no permission to ordain), they are suspended ipso facto from the moment of their ordination. ... [T]hey have no permission from the Church, which is necessary, to exercise priestly ministry. Their Masses are valid but are illegitimately celebrated. Catholics should not frequent SSPX chapels or seek sacraments from the priests of the SSPX.

Pray for the leaders of the SSPX to abandon their disobedience and for the supporters to understand (as so many of them already have) that when you cut yourself off from Peter, you are lost, no matter how Catholic it may look.

You don't break away from the Church to fix it. That's what Martin Luther did — a man who was every bit convinced of the rightness of his position as the SSPX is today.

Think about it: "The Mass is an offense against God." "It is to be completely avoided." "The Society has no canonical status in the Church." "Its ministers do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church." "The problems now to be addressed are essentially doctrinal."

That is quite a mouthful.

Whom do you choose? The Pope — or an outfit with no canonical status whose ministers do not legitimately exercise any ministry?

BTNYC · « **Reply #1 on:** August 20, 2015, 12:17:15 PM »

It truly is hard to know where to start.

He goes out of his way to quote Benedict XVI's precise wording on the status of the SSPX, which specifically omits the word "schismatic," then goes on to draw his own idiotic conclusions based on his own private interpretation (what was that about Martin Luther, Michael?) to call the Society "Schismatic" - something even Francis and his corhorts do not do.

If there's nothing whatsoever wrong with the New Mass, let him shut up about the TLM. Let him stop attending a "form" of the Mass that he obviously has no attachment to other than mere aesthetics. Let him stop calling the limitless variations of the NO "abuses" as well, for the very formless, option-filled nature of the NO made those variations possible in the first place. If he refuses to acknowledge the NO itself as the "abuse," then he should shut his mouth about "abuses."

finally, this:

Quote from: Michael "Flock of Seagulls" Voris

Whom do you choose? The Pope — or an outfit with no canonical status whose ministers do not legitimately exercise any ministry?

Whom do you choose, you half-century-old Justin Bieber simulacrum? Do you believe Catholics oughtn't to "breed like rabbits?" Do you believe that "youth unemployment" is the greatest evil in the world today? Do you believe that Catholics are too "obsessed" with abortion and sodomy? Do you believe Protestant sects are true Christian churches? Do you believe that divorced and "remarried" Catholics ought to be admitted to Holy Communion?

No. On all those matters, you've chosen to side with the SSPX over your beloved Francis. So take a dose of your own medicine, and shut your dishonest, duplicitous mouth about "abuses," and start toeing the party line like a the good little neocath Modernist water carrier you are.

TKGS · « **Reply #2 on:** August 20, 2015, 12:47:50 PM »

Well...Voris is certainly spitting fire today! :scared2:

After listening to the video, it seems to me that IF Bergoglio is the pope and Ratzinger was the pope before him, Voris has some valid points. While Vatican officials have said that the SSPX is not in schism, at the same time they say that they have no legitimate ministry in the [Conciliar] Church.

Voris has a point that it is likely that none of the prelates who have said nice things about the Society would agree that the Novus Ordo is intrinsically evil, but then again, few of them would consider any religion's rites to be intrinsically evil either. The Indianapolis archbishop hosts an annual Interfaith Thanksgiving Service in his cathedral featuring Jєωs, Muslims, Protestants, and various Pagan religions praying to their various gods; the only religion never represented in the program is Catholicism.

From a point that Voris mentioned: Of course, every "abuse" that I've ever heard about in the Novus Ordo is, in fact, an allowable or fully authorized expression in the Novus Ordo religion. I used to think the same as Voris about these so-called abuses. But the fact of the matter is that I've never once heard about an abuse that could not be justified according to the Novus Ordo Missal's General Instructions or the various docuмents that have emanated from Rome since the early 1960s.

Voris has given his answer to the question about the Novus Ordo and he has pronounced it good. If the Conciliar Church is the Catholic Church, I don't know how anyone can argue with him.

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #3 on:** August 20, 2015, 01:10:01 PM »

TKGS made a good point, but I'll paraphrase or change it slightly.

The post-Vatican II church, particularly the Vatican II docuмents, implies quite openly that other churches have the means of salvation. Even other religions that explicitly deny Our Lord have the means of salvation or are at least worthy of respect (wrap your head around that for a minute --- a religion that denies Our Lord, the Truth, the Way and the Life, is worthy of respect?) so then the SSPX states that the novus ordo worship service is an affront to God and that Catholics should avoid it. Upon hearing this, some novus ordites go into a hissy fit.

The novus ordo needs to walk the walk. The novus ordo teaches that, even if Conciliarism is the best, the other religions are all plenty good in and of themselves. Well then, they should live and let live and not try to frighten anyone away from a perfectly peaceful group of Traditional Catholic priests.

I am actually thinking of adding to this but won't at the moment. There is something else afoot that has me wondering what is really going on here but I can't put my fingers on it yet.

Stubborn · « **Reply #4 on:** August 20, 2015, 01:10:31 PM »

Yes, the two faced Voris whose been blowing hot and cold out of both sides of his mouth for years, has finally shown where he stands - with the modernists.

It's too bad the SSPX do not have the guts - and possibly the wherewithal - to invite Voris into their studio and record a video answering his ridiculous accusations which are fueled by a combination of his own stupidity and the NO induced ignorance he embraces and defends.

Not that it would make any difference to him, but it's something I'd watch with interest.

2Vermont · « **Reply #5 on:** August 20, 2015, 03:19:34 PM »

....when you cut yourself off from Peter, you are lost, no matter how Catholic it may look

Too bad Voris doesn't realize that what he describes here is the Novus Ordo Church.

Matto · « **Reply #6 on:** August 20, 2015, 03:39:57 PM »

I do not understand how anyone can go to a traditional Mass and then a Novus Ordo Mass and not come out thinking the traditional Mass is good and the Novus Ordo Mass is bad. It seems like Novus Ordites are cursed with spiritual blindness.

2Vermont · « **Reply #7 on:** August 20, 2015, 03:56:06 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I do not understand how anyone can go to a traditional Mass and then a Novus Ordo Mass and not come out thinking the traditional Mass is good and the Novus Ordo Mass is bad. It seems like Novus Ordites are cursed with spiritual blindness.

I think those who think the Latin mass is "old" time religion will most certainly come away with that.

cassini · « **Reply #8 on:** August 20, 2015, 04:38:48 PM »

In the first place, I am not pleased that the American SSPX should put out a video advising Catholics not to attend the NO under any circuмstances because of this or that. Catholics in their millions were doing that already without any prompting from the SSPX.

if Voris thinks being a Catholic is following a pope that brings the Catholic Church into disrepute every time he opens his mouth to reporters, well he can think again.

Our Lady at La Salette said 'Rome would lose the faith and become the seat of the anti-Christ.'

Wonder what Voris would say about that message from heaven? Some of us believe her prophesy has come true. Has Our Lady led us into schism?

I would not go to a NO to fulfil my Sunday obligation because of the fact that it has driven MILLIONS of Catholics out of Sunday Mass going. I do not want that to happen to me or my children. Instead I/we go to a Trent Mass found at a chapel given by a SSPX priest.

Finally, he quotes a bishop telling all Catholics NOT to go to as SSPX Mass. Voris said their Masses are valid Masses, so are a valid way to fulfil my Sunday obligation. But here is a Catholic Bishop being used by Voris to get me to commit Mortal Sin telling me NOT TO GO TO MY PREFERENCE SUNDAY MASS.

Does Voris not see the CONTRADICTION, the HYPOCRACY of his latest LETTER TO SUBSCRIBERS.

Finally I am willing to let God be our Judge. I do not challenge any pope's legitimacy but where Francis is concerned, only if he defined something using his infallible authority would I adhere to that. Until then, I will ignore that NON-DOGMATIC Council Vatican II stuff and Voris can twirl his pencil all he likes.

Stubborn · « **Reply #9 on:** August 20, 2015, 04:42:03 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I do not understand how anyone can go to a traditional Mass and then a Novus Ordo Mass and not come out thinking the traditional Mass is good and the Novus Ordo Mass is bad. It seems like Novus Ordites are cursed with spiritual blindness.

He just showed his hand, he is here to help the destroyers of the faith. All those who thought he was some sort of defender of the faith just witnessed a little of his sheep's clothing give way to expose a little of the wolf that he actually is.

That's how he can stick up for the NO after all these years.

ClarkSmith · « **Reply #10 on:** August 20, 2015, 05:12:05 PM »

Quote

At some point in 2012, Michael was informed that the lease for the space that Real Catholic TV occupied was not going to be renewed.

At the time, their financial situation was such that finding themselves without a studio and effectively “out of business,” at least temporarily, was a very real possibility.

What happened next is all anyone needs to know about what precipitated Michael’s stunning about face wherein good Catholic men and fellow soldiers for Christ that he once called “friend” suddenly became, not only disposable, but objects of derision, as if almost overnight they had become the enemy.

At the eleventh hour, a “knight in shining armor” and fanboi of Michael Voris strode onto the scene; a wealthy FSSP parishioner from Texas who offered to purchase a nearby building where the newly named Church Militant.tv could set up shop.

Problem solved!

Not so fast…

This particular “benefactor” wasn’t about to content himself with simply writing a few checks while leaving the heavy lifting to the pros; no, this guy wanted a return on investment well beyond whatever sense of satisfaction might come from an act of Catholic philanthropy.

As such, he leveraged his financial clout to the point of effectively purchasing for himself, in addition to some real estate in the Detroit suburbs, the title of “Executive Producer” at CMTV.

Once entrenched in the day to day operations, albeit mainly via telephone calls and emails that no one dared to ignore, over time he was able to impress upon Michael, among other things, his personal hatred for the Society of St. Pius X, somehow convincing him to adopt that irrational position as his very own, at least insofar as the editorial slant of his programming is concerned.

https://harvestingthefruit.com/how-michael-voris-rolls/

Phyllo · « **Reply #11 on:** August 21, 2015, 11:34:49 AM »

Has any one seen this yet? I think it is pretty good and tells it like it is.

http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/52bff54b8f99299a3de459f9a41145cf-431.html

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #12 on:** August 21, 2015, 02:39:25 PM »

Quote from: cassini

In the first place, I am not pleased that the American SSPX should put out a video advising Catholics not to attend the NO under any circuмstances because of this or that. Catholics in their millions were doing that already without any prompting from the SSPX.

if Voris thinks being a Catholic is following a pope that brings the Catholic Church into disrepute every time he opens his mouth to reporters, well he can think again.

Our Lady at La Salette said 'Rome would lose the faith and become the seat of the anti-Christ.'

Wonder what Voris would say about that message from heaven? Some of us believe her prophesy has come true. Has Our Lady led us into schism?

All Voris would need to say here is, that part about Rome losing the faith and becoming the seat of the anti-Christ was discredited long ago, by the Church. For almost 100 years ago, a second edition of Melanie's letters was published which had that part edited out, since it was far too inconvenient for the power brokers in the Vatican. This is the same reason they've kept the 3rd Secret of Fatima unpublished: inconvenience.

Quote

I would not go to a NO to fulfil my Sunday obligation because of the fact that it has driven MILLIONS of Catholics out of Sunday Mass going. I do not want that to happen to me or my children. Instead I/we go to a Trent Mass found at a chapel given by a SSPX priest.

Finally, he quotes a bishop telling all Catholics NOT to go to as SSPX Mass. Voris said their Masses are valid Masses, so are a valid way to fulfil my Sunday obligation. But here is a Catholic Bishop being used by Voris to get me to commit Mortal Sin telling me NOT TO GO TO MY PREFERENCE SUNDAY MASS.

Does Voris not see the CONTRADICTION, the [HYPOCRISY] of his latest LETTER TO SUBSCRIBERS[?]

Finally I am willing to let God be our Judge. I do not challenge any pope's legitimacy but where Francis is concerned, only if he defined something using his infallible authority would I adhere to that. Until then, I will ignore that NON-DOGMATIC Council Vatican II stuff and Voris can twirl his pencil all he likes.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #13 on:** August 21, 2015, 03:23:55 PM »

Quote from: Stubborn

Quote from: Matto
I do not understand how anyone can go to a traditional Mass and then a Novus Ordo Mass and not come out thinking the traditional Mass is good and the Novus Ordo Mass is bad. It seems like Novus Ordites are cursed with spiritual blindness.

He just showed his hand, he is here to help the destroyers of the faith.

Well spoken, Stubborn!

Quote

All those who thought he was some sort of defender of the faith just witnessed a little of his sheep's clothing give way to expose a little of the wolf that he actually is.

That's how he can stick up for the NO after all these years.

I have a friend who has been a staunch traditionalist for many years, who had been sending Voris contributions because she thought he had potential, and she thought she could convert him. I tried to tell her that she was wasting her money and that she ought to give it to our own independent traditional priests, instead.

Maybe now she'll listen to me...?

.

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #14 on:** August 21, 2015, 03:57:09 PM »

Quote from: Phyllo

Has any one seen this yet? I think it is pretty good and tells it like it is.

http://www.cfnews.org/page88/files/52bff54b8f99299a3de459f9a41145cf-431.html

Let's embed it right here, right now!!

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/embed/SfkALjSTXM8[/youtube]

THERE!

It's nice to see an intelligent scholar step up to the plate in a timely manner.

Many thanks to John Vennari!

Quote from: the CFN site

YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS TO THE PRINT EDITION OF CFN

MAKE THIS INTERNET APOSTOLATE POSSIBLE!

.

.

.

A clip from minute 13:

Quote from: John Vennari

... I think it would be more beneficial for Voris to publicly question, again and again and again, with the same frequency, with the same passion that he constantly attacks the SSPX, question Vatican officials, over and over again, publicly:

Why have they given us, abusing their authority, why they have given us a protestantized liturgy in the first place, where we are forced to make a choice!?

Why have they given us this new liturgy where in the words of Cardinals Ottoviani and Bacci, it "represents in its whole and in its details a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as codified by the Council of Trent!"?

.