I don't hold that Vatican II was the Great Apostasy.  Vatican II was the seed of the Great Apostasy, but the latter is yet to come.

So if you were to sign public docuмents that declare Muslims worship the same god as Catholics and that the Muslim god will judge mankind on the last day


would that mean you repudiated Christianity?


Would that mean you left the Catholic Church or would you still be a member in good standing?

To be clear, here is the quote from Lumen Gentium:

The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and

together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."


Could you or I sign that and still be IN the Catholic Church?

Could we still hold an office IN the Catholic Church?


To deny one dogma is to reject Christ and His Church is it not??

So if you were to sign public docuмents that declare Muslims worship the same god as Catholics and that the Muslim god will judge mankind on the last day


would that mean you repudiated Christianity?


Would that mean you left the Catholic Church or would you still be a member in good standing?

To be clear, here is the quote from Lumen Gentium:

The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and

together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."


Could you or I sign that and still be IN the Catholic Church?

Could we still hold an office IN the Catholic Church?


To deny one dogma is to reject Christ and His Church is it not??

To me the heretical part is the part including Muslims in the "plan of salvation." You could argue that all men are included as potential converts to Christ, but the mark here is simply "acknowledg[ing] a creator," not simply being human and capable of conversion to Christ and the Gospel. So a benign interpretation doesn't cut it for me.

The other saying could be read as Muslims worship a merciful, but judging, god, which they do.

Except it refers to the Muslim god as the judge.... Jesus Christ is the judge...

Good grief. Yeah, of course, but the statement says simply they worship a God that judges. 

I'm not defending the statement. I said, "it could be read . . ." They do worship a God who judges. It could be read simply that way. Again, I said "could." 

You could also read what I said as, "I have a bigger problem with . . . " I was not saying the other part is fine, especially with its implications, but the other part is worse for me, much worse.