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Author Topic: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference  (Read 49396 times)

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Offline Persto

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Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
« Reply #240 on: December 06, 2023, 09:23:57 PM »
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  • the very bread and butter of diplomats, to craft language carefully so as not to unnecessarily cause tensions.
    To craft language carefully...but the NOW article points out contradictions in his words.
    Persevere...
    Fear not, nor be any way discouraged- Duet.1:21

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #241 on: December 06, 2023, 09:32:21 PM »
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  • To craft language carefully...but the NOW article points out contradictions in his words.

    NOW is logically challenged at times.  I've caught them/him making numerous blunders.


    Offline Persto

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #242 on: December 07, 2023, 02:49:13 PM »
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  • Will take that into consideration
    Persevere...
    Fear not, nor be any way discouraged- Duet.1:21

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #243 on: June 04, 2024, 06:18:19 AM »
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  • Yes, and he further expounded on the heresies committed by Vigano at the MAGA rallies here:

    “Abp.” Carlo Viganò and Taylor Marshall participate in Ecuмenical Prayer Rally with Protestants and Jews
    December 15, 2020

    So much for their resistance to Vatican II…
    “Abp.” Carlo Viganò and Taylor Marshall participate in Ecuмenical Prayer Rally with Protestants and Jews
    This post is about theology, not politics.
    The former nuncio of the Holy See to the United States, “Archbishop” Carlo Maria Viganò, who has been in hiding since accusing “Pope” Francis of knowing about Theodore McCarrick’s sɛҳuąƖ crimes, is currently the darling of the semi-traditionalists who, although they acknowledge him as Pope, loathe Francis and the reign of (t)error that has been his hallmark since he usurped the Chair of St. Peter on Mar. 13, 2013.
    The reason Viganò is so popular with those who consider themselves traditional Catholics and yet believe the Vatican II Sect to be the Catholic Church, is because he speaks out forcefully against Francis and has publicly condemned many of the theological errors propagated by the New Church, even pointing to the Second Vatican Council (1962-65) as being at the root of it all.
    The same can be said, though to a lesser extent, of Dr. Taylor Marshall, a larger-than-life “Catholic” author and commentator who wormed his way into the semi-trad landscape in 2018 by suddenly adopting many of the positions popular among semi-trads and by publishing the hack job Infiltration, shrewdly marketed as a great literary accomplishment (we took it apart in our podcast here and here).
    We will return to Marshall later and first turn our attention to Viganò. Let us recall his explosive indictment of Vatican II released in June of this year:
    Although that particular missive of his was theologically astute and we acknowledged as much, at the same time Viganò was peddling serious theological errors in a letter he had sent to U.S. President Donald Trump only a day or two prior:
    Ironically, Vigano’s theological howlers in this celebrated letter were reminiscent of the Vatican II errors he was denouncing in his other monograph.
    It turns out that that was not a one-time gaffe, though, because now the retired nuncio has inserted himself into the public arena again and has done so in a way that should unsettle anyone who considers himself to be a traditional Roman Catholic: This past Saturday, Dec. 12, he participated virtually as a speaker in an interreligious prayer rally that was part of the so-called Jericho March in Washington, D.C. He delivered a pre-recorded video message that ended with a prayer.
    Before we examine his words, let’s have a quick look at the nature and goal of the Jericho March. According to the official web site of the organizers:Obviously, then, the Jericho March is a religious event, indeed an interreligious one, whose primary purpose is collective prayer and worship. The religions chiefly being addressed are Catholicism, Protestantism, and Judaism, and their adherents are all lumped together as a “community of believers.”
    The goal of the March on Dec. 12 was announced as follows:The same blurb added: “We will be hearing from national faith leaders, worship leaders, and others.”
    Some of those “faith leaders” Viganò shared the stage with included (names, titles, and descriptions taken from Jericho March web site):
    • Bishop Strickland, Catholic Diocese of Tyler, Texas (video)
    • Dr. Steve Newman, Jєωιѕн patriot
    • Dr. Taylor Marshall, Catholic Author and Commentator (video)
    • Fr. Frank Pavone, Priests for Life (video)
    • Fr. Greg Bramlage, Missionaries of the New Evangelization
    • Fr. Hans Jacobse, American Orthodox Institute
    • Gail Sheppard and George Michalopulos, Orthodox Christian Religious Commentators
    • Kelly Kullberg, Veritas Forum and American Association of Evangelicals
    • Rabbi Curt Landry, Curt Landry Ministries
    • Rev. Kevin Jessip, The Return, Global Strategic Alliance
    The whole event was markedly Zionist. The prayer rally ended with the blowing of the Jєωιѕн shofar, a trumpet that calls to repentance and/or to battle. It is a custom that is popular not only among Jews but also among “Christian” Zionists. One of the shofars used had an Israeli flag wrapped around it, in addition to the American flag.
    Regardless of the intentions of the organizers, and regardless of whatever merits there may be to the aim for which the March was held, there can only be one response for a real Roman Catholic to such a syncretistic interreligious prayer event: You must stay away under pain of mortal sin and (at least) suspicion of heresy.
    The very concept of an ecuмenical/interreligious church, roaring or not, must be vehemently rejected by a Catholic. In 1868, Pope Pius IX reminded the world that Protestant sects are not part of the Church founded by Christ and are lacking in unity of faith and government. He noted “that such a state of things is directly opposed to the nature of the Church instituted by our Lord Jesus Christ…” (Apostolic Letter Iam Vos Omnes). In 1928, Pope Pius XI again rejected the idea “that the Church in itself, or of its nature, is divided into sections; that is to say, that it is made up of several churches or distinct communities, which still remain separate, and although having certain articles of doctrine in common, nevertheless disagree concerning the remainder…” (Encyclical Mortalium Animos, n. 7). Vigano knows this.
    Also, a Catholic must reject the terminology employed by the Jericho March regarding “people of faith”:Now let us examine the brief speech delivered by “Abp.” Viganò, which was shown on a gigantic screen at the prayer rally:


    A full transcript of the remarks has been posted at the conservative Novus Ordo web site Life Site. We will only quote the portions we intend to comment on. Vigano begins thus:First, we observe that the people he addresses as “brothers and sisters” are a motley crew of Novus Ordos, Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, Judaizers, and Jews. Second, it is puzzling that he speaks of the United States as “our beloved Nation”, considering that he is a citizen of Italy, and it has been well over four years that he retired from his role as nuncio to the U.S. Likewise, he subsequently speaks of “our Country and … our President”.
    Viganò again makes a reference to the “children of darkness.” We say “again” because he had already introduced the concept in his open letter to President Trump published in June. However, Vigano’s use and understanding of the term and its counterpart — “children of light” — is not orthodox because he uses them in an entirely Naturalist sense and divorces them from the supernatural concept of sanctifying grace (or lack thereof). Our criticism of Vigano’s letter explains this in some detail.
    Further on, Vigano makes clear that he identifies with all of the others participating in the prayer rally, saying: “We are the silent army of the children of Light, the humble ranks who overthrow evil by invoking God, the praying army that walks around the walls of lies and betrayal in order to bring them down.” By speaking in the first person plural — “we” — he is making clear that he considers himself one of them and one with them. This is only consistent with the nature and purpose of the event, which the organizers had announced would be “comprised of ʝʊdɛօ-Christians collectively praying to God”.
    So Vigano endorses the idea that the “Catholics”, Orthodox, Protestants, and Jews gathered there to demand election transparency and an end to corruption comprise the “children of light”, similar to how the Chosen People of the Old Covenant together brought down the walls of Jericho by faithfully following God’s orders. Does he not see a theological problem with that?
    St. Paul once warned the Ephesians: “Let no man deceive you with vain words. For because of these things [sins he had just enumerated] cometh the anger of God upon the children of unbelief. Be ye not therefore partakers with them. For you were heretofore darkness, but now light in the Lord. Walk then as children of the light” (Eph 5:6-8). Who are “the children of unbelief” if not non-Catholics — who are contrasted precisely with the “children of the light”?
    Vigano, on the other hand, considers the people he is addressing, collectively, to be the people of God, the “roaring church”: “We fight the battles of the Lord with faith and courage, carrying the Ark of the Covenant in our hearts, remaining faithful to the teachings of the Gospel of Our Lord!” Addressing God in prayer, he even refers to everyone gathered as “this army of Thy children”!
    So Vigano believes in a church that is comprised not only of Catholics but also of unbelievers of various stripes, who, presumably because they are fighting for a cause Vigano deems worthy, have been promoted by him to the status of “children of light”, “children of God”, and soldiers in God’s army. And this from a man who is widely seen as staunch and unyielding Catholic traditionalist — it defies belief!
    All in all, Vigano’s remarks are dangerous, outrageous, absurd, gravely erroneous theologically, and at least implicitly heretical.
    What makes matters worse is that Vigano is not simply your average, run-of-the-mill Novus Ordo bishop who simply doesn’t know better. Quite the contrary — he has demonstrated that he has an astute grasp of real Catholic doctrine and the corresponding errors of Vatican II. We recall that in his spectacular condemnation of the Conciliar religion, dated June 9, 2020, the former nuncio lamented:Similarly, in a Sep. 1, 2020 letter to Catholic Family News contributor Stephen Kokx, Vigano asserted firmly that “it is clear that no admixture is possible with those who propose adulterated doctrines of the conciliar ideological manifesto….”
    So, the question now has to be asked: What happened to all that?! Now he is mixing not only with regular Vatican II believers but also with Protestants, Eastern Orthodox, and Jews, labeling them children of God, children of light, part of the church, and soldiers in God’s army!
    Here are some snapshots from the rest of the rally, which lasted over 4 hours:
    Vigano has quite simply condemned himself. He has participated in a thoroughly ecuмenical religious event, one in which not only Protestants (who typically affirm the Holy Trinity) but even Trinity-denying Jews took part. A Dec. 5 press release for Jericho March stated: “The prayer rally will feature national faith leaders including popular evangelical pastors, Catholic clergy, Jєωιѕн, and Orthodox leaders; political leaders and elected officials; viral social media influencers and top activists from the political sphere; and praise and worship musicians.” It doesn’t get much more ecuмenical than that! And since this was part of the advertisement for the event, it’s not like Vigano didn’t know what he was getting himself into.
    The same goes for Taylor Marshall.
    Presumably due to his influence and popularity among “conservative Catholics” and traditionalists, Marshall was appointed to the “Catholics for Trump” advisory board in July of this year. Like Vigano, he too delivered a few remarks at the prayer rally and led the interreligious crowd in praying the Our Father, via video:

    The complete video feed of the entire prayer rally is embedded below. Fr. Vigano’s appearance begins at the 58:42 timestamp. Marshall’s turn comes at 2:47:45:


    Clearly, this was not simply a political event. Above all, it was a religious prayer event, and as such it had been advertised.
    The blowing of the Jєωιѕн shofar came at the very end:

    Apparently Vigano and Marshall thought they’d fit right in with all this. Never mind what the Church’s law decrees on the matter, namely:By taking part in an essentially religious assembly in which “Catholics” prayed together with Protestant heretics and Jews, Vigano and Marshall have made themselves suspect of heresy on that count alone. The heresy in question is Indifferentism, “that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule” (Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, n. 2).
    So, where is the outrage from the recognize-and-resist crowd? If such an ecuмenical prayer rally had been held by liberals such as Blaise Cupich or Robert McElroy for some favorite Novus Ordo cause, would The Remnant and similar publications and blogs not be rending their cyber-garments at this point?
    And yet, we find the opposite reaction. Like Life Site, the semi-trad newspaper Catholic Family News has happily published Viganò’s address and prayer on its own web site, with editor-in-chief Brian McCall endorsing the Jericho March in general and Viganò in particular, calling him “a true shepherd given to our nation.” Why McCall would refer to him in this manner is puzzling, considering that Vigano, who has been retired since 2016, has no official role in the entire Vatican II Church, much less in its United States branch specifically.
    Of course we know the reason why McCall calls Vigano a “true shepherd”. It is not because the “archbishop” was appointed by the “Pope” to shepherd him and his semi-trad friends but because he happens to agree with what he has to say — “His words were powerful and inspiring”, McCall writes in his introduction –, and so he has personally chosen to accept him as his shepherd. But that is not how teaching and governing authority works in the Roman Catholic Church. The only jurisdiction Vigano exercises is over the titular see of Ulpiana, to which he was appointed on Apr. 3, 1992, by “Pope” John Paul II. Titular sees are extinct dioceses.
    Either way, Vigano and Marshall have a lot of explaining to do. In his 2019 book Infiltration, Marshall criticizes Vatican II’s Rahnerian theology of the church, which holds that “eyond the Catholic Church is the wider ‘People of God’, who include not just Catholics but all people of goodwill who profess other religions. This theology opens the way … to the religious ecuмenism of Vatican II” (p. 138). Apparently this does not bother Marshall when it comes to a socio-political cause he agrees with.
    Some will say that the ecuмenical prayer assembly of the Jericho March was very much like the infamous Assisi interreligious prayer for peace event conducted by “Pope” John Paul II in 1986 and 2002. But there is a difference: In Assisi, each of the different religious groups prayed separately, apart from one another; in the ecuмenical “Let the Church Roar” rally, the interreligious prayer was collective and offered as a “community of believers.”
    So much for the “traditional Catholicism” of Carlo Maria Viganò and Taylor Marshall.
    Talk about infiltration!
    Image source: youtube.com (screenshots)
    License: fair use

    https://novusordowatch.org/2020/12/vigano-and-marshall-in-ecuмenical-prayer-rally/
    I was reading this and remembered this post. 


    Quote
    BY FATHER FEENEY

    It is a mortal sin for a Catholic priest to participate in an Interfaith meeting. Any Catholic priest who has participated in an Interfaith meeting should go to confession at once, and should accuse himself of a mortal sin, and should promise to amend the scandal he has given, and should assure his confessor that he will never take part in an Interfaith meeting again. If, as a penitent in confession, he does not give this promise and this assurance, the priest who hears his confession should refuse him absolution, or else he, himself, will commit a mortal sin.

    It is impossible for any Catholic priest to assist at an Interfaith meeting and not know that it is a mortal sin to do so. A priest who would not know this to be a mortal sin, would simply not know what a mortal sin was at all, either among his own faults or those of his penitents. If participation by a Catholic priest in an Interfaith meeting is not an occasion of sin to be avoided under pain of mortal sin, by reason of the compromise of the Faith, the scandal, and the occasion of sin to others it affords, then nothing in a Catholic’s life could ever be called an occasion of sin, nor could anyone ever be commanded to avoid an occasion of sin.

    No bishop can give a priest permission to participate in an Interfaith meeting. Any bishop who does so commits a mortal sin himself, and his permission should not be accepted. It is not lawful in the Catholic Church to commit mortal sin “with permission.” Nor is it lawful for any bishop to command a priest to commit a mortal sin, or to give a scandal.

    Every Catholic priest who reads what I now say knows I am telling the truth. I know a priest’s mind. In matters of such fundamental moral observance, a priest needs only to be told the truth in order to see it. I also know the fastidiousness of a priest’s heart in matters connected with sin. Any priest who will pretend to himself, or to others, that what I am now saying is not sound Catholic moral theology will later repent of this. And he will accuse himself in confession of having done wrong. And he should be given a penance proportionate to the heinousness of what he does when he either participates in, or says one may participate in, for any reason whatsoever, an Interfaith meeting, which is the joint presentation of religious beliefs by a Catholic priest, a Protestant minister, and a Jєωιѕн rabbi.


    Offline songbird

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #244 on: June 04, 2024, 05:57:17 PM »
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  • Thank you Anthony.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #245 on: June 04, 2024, 06:18:40 PM »
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  • :facepalm:

    This was a political meeting ... which happened to include Prots and others and has nothing to do with any kind of communicatio in sacris with Prots/Jews.  It's similar to the "March for Life" ... which includes all manner of "Christians" and has been attended by Traditional (including SV priests).

    For some reason the bitter Trads here seem to never tire of slandering +Vigano.

    I don't know if some of you are just idiots (who don't understand the difference between this and actual communicatio in sacris with non-Catholics) or just malicious against +Vigano, or some combination of the two.

    Miser who's been thoroughly discredited for having issued one slander after another (each of which has been debunked), falsely accusing +Vigano of heresy, has been committing objectively grave sins here on the forum and has refused to retract anything even after it was completely debunked.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #246 on: June 04, 2024, 06:22:14 PM »
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  • I was reading this and remembered this post.

    Seriously, man, have you not paid any attention to keep posting that trash from Miser that's been completely debunked?

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #247 on: June 04, 2024, 07:32:31 PM »
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  • Seriously, man, have you not paid any attention to keep posting that trash from Miser that's been completely debunked?
    It mostly slipped my mind. I will try to remember.


    Online Catholic Knight

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #248 on: June 05, 2024, 06:39:19 AM »
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  • Vigano for pope!

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #249 on: June 05, 2024, 08:55:11 AM »
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  • Vigano for pope!

    He would make a good pope in some respects, but then he'd likely keep the inter-religious gatherings at Assisi going; given his strong support of the Jericho inter-religious gathering.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29