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Author Topic: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference  (Read 49397 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
« Reply #135 on: October 31, 2023, 03:41:07 PM »
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    Yes, and only ONE group uses the title SOL INVICTUS

    Misleading, as usual.  The term 'sol invictus' goes back all the way to the early AD centuries.  Constantine used it before and after his conversion and the peaceful times of Christianity.  It's also the name of the pagan festival in Winter (i.e. Dec 25) and once the Church celebrated Christmas, and overtook this pagan festival, the Church associated Christ with the sun.  +Vigano, being Italian, is much more culturally close to the Roman Empire and such old terms aren't used in America (because we're protestant), while they are used still in Europe.  So, yes, the term refers to a pagan festival, but the Church (long ago) co-opted it and perfected it.  Just because it's not used in America doesn't mean it's not still used in catholic circles across the pond.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #136 on: October 31, 2023, 05:17:33 PM »
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  • Misleading, as usual.  The term 'sol invictus' goes back all the way to the early AD centuries.  Constantine used it before and after his conversion and the peaceful times of Christianity.  It's also the name of the pagan festival in Winter (i.e. Dec 25) and once the Church celebrated Christmas, and overtook this pagan festival, the Church associated Christ with the sun.  +Vigano, being Italian, is much more culturally close to the Roman Empire and such old terms aren't used in America (because we're protestant), while they are used still in Europe.  So, yes, the term refers to a pagan festival, but the Church (long ago) co-opted it and perfected it.  Just because it's not used in America doesn't mean it's not still used in catholic circles across the pond.

    The point Miser is making is that in the history of the Church the name “Sol Invictus” was never used as a title for Our Lord. If you can provide a reference, her point will be moot.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #137 on: October 31, 2023, 05:23:45 PM »
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  • Speaking of Sol Invictus, this guy gives me the creeps: 

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Sol_Invictus


    I knew he was a satanist, now I see he converted to being a traditional Catholic!!!!!!!!
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #138 on: October 31, 2023, 05:24:13 PM »
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  • The point Miser is making is that in the history of the Church the name “Sol Invictus” was never used as a title for Our Lord. If you can provide a reference, her point will be moot.
    .

    I really don't see why people are making such a big deal out of this. Christ is referred to as the sun in the litany of the Holy Name of Jesus: "Jesus, Sun of Justice". So there can't be any problem using a metaphor of the sun to refer to Him. And then, anyone who objects to calling Christ "unconquered" can maybe explain who has ever conquered Him and when?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #139 on: October 31, 2023, 05:29:52 PM »
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  • .

    I really don't see why people are making such a big deal out of this. Christ is referred to as the sun in the litany of the Holy Name of Jesus: "Jesus, Sun of Justice". So there can't be any problem using a metaphor of the sun to refer to Him. And then, anyone who objects to calling Christ "unconquered" can maybe explain who has ever conquered Him and when?


    I think it’s just odd that Vigano used that particular title since it’s associated with satanists and that there is no historical use of that title for Jesus. I’m not saying that it’s proof enough to reject him, only that it’s one more reason to give me pause from jumping on the Vigano bandwagon. 
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #140 on: October 31, 2023, 05:43:48 PM »
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  • Speaking of Sol Invictus, this guy gives me the creeps:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustus_Sol_Invictus


    I knew he was a satanist, now I see he converted to being a traditional Catholic!!!!!!!!

    I wonder if people "convert" to traditional Catholicism simply to infiltrate.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #141 on: October 31, 2023, 05:58:49 PM »
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  • I wonder if people "convert" to traditional Catholicism simply to infiltrate.

    I’m almost certain that there are infiltrators in our ranks. 
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #142 on: October 31, 2023, 06:05:47 PM »
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  • St. Augustine

    Exposition on Psalm 37

    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1801037.htm



    Quote
    Hear what another Scripture, foreseeing our Lord's future suffering at the hands of the ungodly, says. What says it? The earth is given into the hands of the wicked. Job 9:24 What is meant by earth being given into the hands of the ungodly? The delivering of the flesh into the hands of the persecutors. But God did not leave His righteous One there: from the flesh, which was taken captive, He leads forth the soul unconquered....




    St. Thomas Aquinas

    Catena Aurea on Luke

    Chapter 23, Lecture 5


    https://aquinas.cc/la/en/~CaLuke.C23.L5.7




    Quote
    THEOPHYL.

    Because also by a tree death had entered, it must needs be that by a tree it should be abolished, and that the Lord passing unconquered through the pains of a tree should subdue the pleasures which flow from a tree.


    He means the tree of the Cross, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, respectively.






    St. Leo the Great

    Sermon 39


    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/360339.htm



    Quote
    See, dearly-beloved, with what mighty weapons, with what impregnable defences we are armed by our Leader, who is famous for His many triumphs, the unconquered Master of the Christian warfare.






    St. Chrysostom

    Homily 15 on Romans


    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/210215.htm



    Quote
    For they did not merely conquer, but in a wondrous way, and so that one might learn that those who plotted against them had a war not against men, but against that invincible Might.








    St. Cyprian of Carthage

    Treatise 4


    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050704.htm




    Quote
    35.

    [ . . . ]


    For since Christ is the true sun and the true day, as the worldly sun and worldly day depart, when we pray and ask that light may return to us again, we pray for the advent of Christ, which shall give us the grace of everlasting light. Moreover, the Holy Spirit in the Psalms manifests that Christ is called the day. The stone, says He, which the builders rejected, has become the head of the corner. This is the Lord's doing; and it is marvellous in our eyes. This is the day which the Lord has made; let us walk and rejoice in it.

    Also the prophet Malachi testifies that He is called the Sun, when he says, But to you that fear the name of the Lord shall the Sun of righteousness arise, and there is healing in His wings. Malachi 4:2 But if in the Holy Scriptures the true sun and the true day is Christ, there is no hour excepted for Christians wherein God ought not frequently and always to be worshipped; so that we who are in Christ — that is, in the true Sun and the true Day — should be instant throughout the entire day in petitions, and should pray; and when, by the law of the world, the revolving night, recurring in its alternate changes, succeeds, there can be no harm arising from the darkness of night to those who pray, because the children of light have the day even in the night. For when is he without light who has light in his heart? Or when has not he the sun and the day, whose Sun and Day is Christ?







    St. Gregory nαzιanzen

    Oration 45

    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/310245.htm



    Quote
    And of a year old, because He is the Sun of Righteousness Malachi 4:2 setting out from heaven, and circuмscribed by His visible Nature, and returning unto Himself. And The blessed crown of Goodness, — being on every side equal to Himself and alike; and not only this, but also as giving life to all the circle of the virtues, gently commingled and intermixed with each other, according to the Law of Love and Order. And Immaculate and guileless, as being the Healer of faults, and of the defects and taints that come from sin. For though He both took on Him our sins and bare our diseases, Isaiah 53:4 yet He did not Himself suffer anything that needed healing. For He was tempted in all points like as we are yet without sin. Hebrews 4:15 For he that persecuted the Light that shines in darkness could not overtake Him.




    St. Chrysostom

    Homily 9 on Second Timothy

    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/230709.htm


    Quote
    Hear from Christ, who says, If a man love Me, he will keep My words, and My Father and I will come unto him, and make Our abode with him. John 14:23 And think how great a privilege it is that He who will appear to all generally, should promise to come to us in particular: for He says, We will come and make Our abode with him. If any man love His appearing, he will do everything to invite Him to himself, and to hold Him, that the light may shine upon him. Let there be nothing unworthy of His coming, and He will soon take up His abode with us.

    And it is called His Epiphany, because He will appear above, and shine forth from on high. Let us therefore seek those things that are above, and we shall soon draw down those beams upon us. None of those who grovel below, and bury themselves in this lower earth, will be able to view the light of that Sun. None of those who defile themselves with worldly things will be able to behold that Sun of righteousness. He shines on none of those who are so occupied. Recover yourself a little, recover yourself from that depth, from the waves of a worldly life, if you would see the Sun, and enjoy His appearing.






    St. John of Damascus

    An Exposition of the Orthodox Faith (Book II)


    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/33042.htm




    Quote
    Chapter 1

    [ . . . ]

    For time will not be counted by days and nights even after the resurrection, but there will rather be one day with no evening, wherein the Sun of Justice will shine brightly on the just, but for the sinful there will be night profound and limitless.





    St. Augustine

    Sermon 28 on the New Testament


    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/160328.htm




    Quote
    2. The Lord Jesus Himself shone bright as the sun; His raiment became white as the snow; and Moses and Elias talked with Him. Jesus Himself indeed shone as the sun, signifying that He is the light which lights every man that comes into the world. What this sun is to the eyes of the flesh, that is He to the eyes of the heart; and what that is to the flesh of men, that is He to their hearts. Now His raiment is His Church. For if the raiment be not held together by him who puts it on, it will fall off. Of this raiment, Paul was as it were a sort of last border. For he says himself, I am the least of the Apostles. And in another place, I am the last of the Apostles. Now in a garment the border is the last and least part. Wherefore as that woman which suffered from an issue of blood, when she had touched the Lord's border was made whole, so the Church which came from out of the Gentiles, was made whole by the preaching of Paul. What wonder if the Church is signified by white raiment, when you hear the Prophet Isaiah saying, Though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white as snow? Moses and Elias, that is, the Law and the Prophets, what avail they, except they converse with the Lord? Except they give witness to the Lord, who would read the Law or the Prophets? Mark how briefly the Apostle expresses this; For by the Law is the knowledge of sin; but now the righteousness of God without the Law is manifested: behold the sun; being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, behold the shining of the Sun.





    Basil

    Hexaemeron (Homily 6)


    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/32016.htm



    Quote
    1.

    [ . . . ]

    Truly, if such are the good things of time, what will be those of eternity? If such is the beauty of visible things, what shall we think of invisible things? If the grandeur of heaven exceeds the measure of human intelligence, what mind shall be able to trace the nature of the everlasting? If the sun, subject to corruption, is so beautiful, so grand, so rapid in its movement, so invariable in its course; if its grandeur is in such perfect harmony with and due proportion to the universe: if, by the beauty of its nature, it shines like a brilliant eye in the middle of creation; if finally, one cannot tire of contemplating it, what will be the beauty of the Sun of Righteousness? If the blind man suffers from not seeing the material sun, what a deprivation is it for the sinner not to enjoy the true light!




    St. John Cassian

    Institutes (Book VIII)


    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/350708.htm



    Quote
    Chapter 9.

    And some are commanded to be angry after a wholesome fashion, but with our own selves, and with evil thoughts that arise, and not to sin, viz., by bringing them to a bad issue. Finally, the next verse explains this to be the meaning more clearly: The things you say in your hearts, be sorry for them on your beds: i.e., whatever you think of in your hearts when sudden and nervous excitements rush in on you, correct and amend with wholesome sorrow, lying as it were on a bed of rest, and removing by the moderating influence of counsel all noise and disturbance of wrath. Lastly, the blessed Apostle, when he made use of the testimony of this verse, and said, Be angry and sin not, added, Let not the sun go down upon your wrath, neither give place to the devil. Ephesians 4:26 If it is dangerous for the sun of righteousness to go down upon our wrath, and if when we are angry we straightway give place to the devil in our hearts, how is it that above he charges us to be angry, saying, Be angry, and sin not? Does he not evidently mean this: be angry with your faults and your tempers, lest, if you acquiesce in them, Christ, the sun of righteousness, may on account of your anger begin to go down on your darkened minds, and when He departs you may furnish a place for the devil in your hearts?





    St. Gregory Thaumaturgus

    On the Annunciation to the Holy Virgin Mary


    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/06091.htm



    Quote
    Today are strains of praise sung joyfully by the choir of angels, and the light of the advent of Christ shines brightly upon the faithful. Today is the glad spring-time to us, and Christ the Sun of righteousness has beamed with clear light around us, [ . . . ]




    St. Augustine

    Sermon 78 on the New Testament


    https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/160378.htm



    Quote
    2. Therefore was John sought for to bear witness to the Truth; and you have heard what He said; You came unto John; he was a burning and a shining lamp, and you were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. This lamp was prepared for their confusion, for of this was it said so long time before in the Psalms, I have prepared a lamp for Mine Anointed. What! A lamp for the Sun!




    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline Michelle

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #143 on: October 31, 2023, 06:21:52 PM »
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  • Yes, exactly, the rays of the sun etc. are lovely symbols used by Catholics.

    Sadly, there are Gnostic New Agers who use the same imagery.

    They have a Christ, and a Jesus, and many other "Ascended Masters" including Catholic Saints such as St Francis, and St Therese, and they include Mother Theresa and Pope JPII and Padre Pio, etc.

    and Mother Mary and they often promote the rosary.

    Elizabeth Clare Prophet, the originator of that "prayer" Michael Flynn read, even promotes Fatima:

    https://www.ascendedmastersspiritualretreats.org/archangel-raphael-mother-mary-fatima/


    So when they talk about their "god" they are talking about Lucifer

    and when they invoke the saints they are talking about the Ascended Masters

    and when they talk about the Seven Fold Rays they are referring to

    the sun god, Sol Invictus.

    They use the term:  I AM

    because they ultimately believe we are all our own god.

    It's nutty, but it's very, very real and it's the religion of the United Nations:  Theosophy

    (note:  JPII was taught acting by a Theosophist linked to Blavatsky)

    Anyway, Theosophy is just a fancy name for Luciferian

    Really, Luciferianism, Satanism, Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, Rosicrucianism, Gnosticism, Kabbalah, etc. etc.

    are like Mexican food.  The same ingredients are usually there (such as ecuмanism) but they are just presented in different ways.


    People should research:

    Ascended Masters

    Master Jesus

    Lucis Trust "Christ"

    Sol Invictus


    so they are not deceived by these people when they sound Catholic.


    When you do research, do a Google Images search as well to see their symbols which are good clues to learn to look for.


    Hugo Talks put out a few videos on how the MAGA rallies are connected to the Luciferian UN. 

    Here is one:

    https://hugotalks.com/2022/04/19/trumps-new-age-doctor-network-hugo-talks/


    Satan doesn't need to deceive the people on the left.

    They are already deceived. They are already in the bag.

    He needs to deceive the people on the "right".

    He especially wants to deceive Catholics.

    So we have to stay on our toes and notice the details.
    This is exactly the point.  
    When Pope Leo Xlll heard the conversation between Our Lord and Satan. The devil asked for 100 years to destroy the Catholic Church.  This doesn't necessarily mean the structure or buildings but also the faith in each individual soul.
    The only way that he can deceive the good is by what appears to be good and true.  
    When Our Lady appeared at Fatima, in each apparition there were confirmations of articles of faith, the pope, sin, heaven, hell, purgatory and so on.  She also emphasized the dogma of faith being preserved in Portugal.  Portugal as a country does not proclaim the Catholic faith anymore but maybe some souls will retain it until the end.



    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #144 on: October 31, 2023, 07:45:05 PM »
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  • Quote
    there is no historical use of that title for Jesus
    The term 'sol invictus' goes back all the way to the early AD centuries.  Constantine used it before and after his conversion and the peaceful times of Christianity.  It's also the name of the pagan festival in Winter (i.e. Dec 25) and once the Church celebrated Christmas, and overtook this pagan festival, the Church associated Christ with the sun.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #145 on: October 31, 2023, 07:54:58 PM »
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  • The term 'sol invictus' goes back all the way to the early AD centuries.  Constantine used it before and after his conversion and the peaceful times of Christianity.  It's also the name of the pagan festival in Winter (i.e. Dec 25) and once the Church celebrated Christmas, and overtook this pagan festival, the Church associated Christ with the sun.

    Yes, the Church does associate Christ with the Sun, but I’ve yet to see Her use that title to describe Our Lord. 
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #146 on: October 31, 2023, 07:56:47 PM »
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  • I think it’s just odd that Vigano used that particular title since it’s associated with satanists and that there is no historical use of that title for Jesus. I’m not saying that it’s proof enough to reject him, only that it’s one more reason to give me pause from jumping on the Vigano bandwagon.
    .

    Well, maybe he read it in a book that just isn't on the internet? I mean really, I'm not understanding why we're stuck on this.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #147 on: October 31, 2023, 08:10:00 PM »
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  • Well, maybe he read it in a book that just isn't on the internet? I mean really, I'm not understanding why we're stuck on this.

    No kidding.  This is ridiculous.  While someone could disagree with his use the imagery, imputing something nefarious to it ... as if he were some gnostic Satanist is the height of absurdity ... just a continuation of Miser's slander campaign.  And Quo tipped his hand in the post to which you were responding, saying it's just one more reason to have "pause" about +Vigano.  This is a bunch of individuals who don't like him for whatever reason and are literally just looking for stuff to try pinning on him, like throwing excrement (and that's what this is) at the wall hoping that some of it will stick.  When one ludicrous claim is debunked, throw another one at him.  They've already decided they don't like him ... for some because he was a Conciliar prelate for many years, for others because he said something nice (with much nuance that escaped the poor reading comprehension of the accusers) about Trump.  How many of us have always been Traditional?  Most of us have spent time as Conciliar Catholics ... and it was ONLY by the free unmerited grace of God that we became Traditional Catholics, the same grace that later brought +Vigano to Traditional Catholicism.  There's a lot of resentment here from the types that remind me of the parable about the laborer who showed up at the end of the day but then was given the same reward.  They resent the fact that +Vigano has suddenly burst onto the scene and become a "high profile" figure ... whereas all the other Trad bishops and priests labored in obscurity for decades.  Strangely, it isn't the clerics who resent +Vigano.  I hear very positive things about him from Bishop Sanborn, Father Jenkins, etc.  It's the laymen.

    If someone wants to make a concrete criticism, that's fair game, provided it remains charitable and truthful.  I disagreed with his having been "soft" on Ratzinger when the latter died ... although you knew the softness was in the spirit of saying "nothing but good about the dead".

    And none of the conspiracy theorists who think that +Vigano is some Masonic gnostic Satanist infiltrator has provided any kind of remotely plausible cui bono for what he's intending to accomplish.  He's brought encouragement to long-time Traditional Catholics, has been influencing some of the conservative / neo-con fence-sitters to take a side, and has been shifting the latter to the right ... not something that a gatekeeping infiltrator would seek to accomplish.

    +Vigano is not perfect, but he's also not gnostic Masonic Satanist agent attempting to destroy Traditional Catholicism either.

    Offline Miser Peccator

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #148 on: October 31, 2023, 08:41:08 PM »
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  • Issues with Vigano:

    1.


    2.  Participates at Zionist ecuмenical prayer rally and addresses crowd of Jєωs, Luciferian New Agers, Protestants etc. as the children of Light.  Why? Are they baptized or believers in Our Lord Jesus or Catholic?  No.  The only thing they have in common is they support Trump.

    3. Writes letter to rabbi stating that Jєωs do not wait for their Messiah in vain when their Moshiach is the Antichrist.

    4.  Meets with Crowleyan Satanist, Dugin, (who has made clear his plan to infiltrate and take down the Church from within by strengthening Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ) and Opus Dei people in Venice to plan the post covid era.

    5.  Meets with Crowleyan Satanist, Dugin, at the Russophile conference.

    6.  Shares Dugin's doctrine stating that Moscow is the Third Rome.  This when Moscow's Putin has declared Communism came from Christianity and promotes venerating Stalin's relics and their Orthodox Church is run by KGB Kirill and is a heretical sect that promotes ecuмanism.

    7.  Lied to the Awaken America crowd by stating that the pandemic farce would have never taken place under Trump.  This after 1000's of deaths and Trump demands credit and wants to go down as the Father of the Vaccine.

    8.  Prophecized that Trump would negotiate a peace deal that would create a "coexistence of equal nations". That phrase is communist doctrine with ties to Lenin, Kruschev and the UN as well as the objectives of the NWO described by Ben Gurion, the first prime minister of Israel.

    9.  Eulogizes Benedict by saying he is in Purgatory or Heaven.  No chance of Hell for that notorious heretic.  Says Benedict was liberal in his youth but conservative in his later years.  100% not true.

    10.  Declares three Katechons, none of which are the true papacy:
    Trump, Benedict, and Moscow

    11.  Uses phrases that are very special to the lodge such as ending letters which are not even prayerful with the words:  So may it be. 

    As well as repeatedly referring to Our Lord Jesus Christ as the Luciferian Freemason god: Sol Invictus. 


    12.  Continues to support Trump at Zionist Awaken America Rallies.  Continually declares that Trump is the enemy of the WEF and Gates etc. when he is clearly implementing their goals.


    But give him time, he's still learning. 

    Maybe he'll learn the First Commandment sometime soon.




    I exposed AB Vigano's public meetings with Crowleyan Satanist Dugin so I ask protection on myself family friends priest, under the Blood of Jesus Christ and mantle of the Blessed Virgin Mary! If harm comes to any of us may that embolden the faithful to speak out all the more so Catholics are not deceived.



    [fon

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Vigano to speak at Bennyvacantist conference
    « Reply #149 on: October 31, 2023, 08:44:18 PM »
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  • No kidding.  This is ridiculous.  While someone could disagree with his use the imagery, imputing something nefarious to it ... as if he were some gnostic Satanist is the height of absurdity ... just a continuation of Miser's slander campaign.  And Quo tipped his hand in the post to which you were responding, saying it's just one more reason to have "pause" about +Vigano.  This is a bunch of individuals who don't like him for whatever reason and are literally just looking for stuff to try pinning on him, like throwing excrement (and that's what this is) at the wall hoping that some of it will stick.  When one ludicrous claim is debunked, throw another one at him.  They've already decided they don't like him ... for some because he was a Conciliar prelate for many years, for others because he said something nice (with much nuance that escaped the poor reading comprehension of the accusers) about Trump.  How many of us have always been Traditional?  Most of us have spent time as Conciliar Catholics ... and it was ONLY by the free unmerited grace of God that we became Traditional Catholics, the same grace that later brought +Vigano to Traditional Catholicism.  There's a lot of resentment here from the types that remind me of the parable about the laborer who showed up at the end of the day but then was given the same reward.  They resent the fact that +Vigano has suddenly burst onto the scene and become a "high profile" figure ... whereas all the other Trad bishops and priests labored in obscurity for decades.  Strangely, it isn't the clerics who resent +Vigano.  I hear very positive things about him from Bishop Sanborn, Father Jenkins, etc.  It's the laymen.

    If someone wants to make a concrete criticism, that's fair game, provided it remains charitable and truthful.  I disagreed with his having been "soft" on Ratzinger when the latter died ... although you knew the softness was in the spirit of saying "nothing but good about the dead".

    And none of the conspiracy theorists who think that +Vigano is some Masonic gnostic Satanist infiltrator has provided any kind of remotely plausible cui bono for what he's intending to accomplish.  He's brought encouragement to long-time Traditional Catholics, has been influencing some of the conservative / neo-con fence-sitters to take a side, and has been shifting the latter to the right ... not something that a gatekeeping infiltrator would seek to accomplish.

    +Vigano is not perfect, but he's also not gnostic Masonic Satanist agent attempting to destroy Traditional Catholicism either.


    More of your rash judgements, aye? Just because I’m hesitant in accepting a new comer NO “bishop” who says many good things intermixed with a few strange untraditional quotes (among a few other questionable things like: Why hasn’t Bergoglio punished him yet?) makes me a “conspiracy theorist”? :laugh1:

    As for the cui bono garbage, please! I’ve answered it before, and if you can’t understand what the cui bono would be for him, if he were actually insincere, I can’t help you to understand. This is logic 101.

    FOR THE RECORD, I have hope for Vigano. I believe he’s most likely sincere and of good will. THAT DOES NOT mean that I trust him totally.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?