Author Topic: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler  (Read 683 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2020, 08:42:07 PM »
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  • That's because I think Bishop Sanborn is responding to the original letter of June 9, not this latest interview.  He may not even know about these comments.
    Right. He's reviewing the June 09 letter. 
    I believe in the Apostolic Catholic Church. I reject and denounce the malfeasant or “dysfunctional papal or episcopal Newchurch.” - Father Paul Trinchard

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
    « Reply #31 on: June 29, 2020, 10:24:39 PM »
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    Right. He's reviewing the June 09 letter. 
    Then why did you post his comments on this thread?  Makes no sense.  


    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
    « Reply #32 on: June 30, 2020, 07:31:02 AM »
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  • Right.  I've made this same point repeatedly.  One can quibble about the precise extent of infallibility, but this is a question of the Church's indefectibility.  To say that an Ecumenical Council of the Church can lead to the creation of a parallel anti-Church is contrary to the overall indefectibility of the Magisterium and of the Church as a whole.  To say that the Church can promulgate and use a Rite of Mass that displeases God (a Protestantized/paganized Mass as Vigano calls it) and cannot be attended by Catholics in good conscience is contrary to the Church's disciplinary infallibility.

    R&R who keep pushing the narrow view of infallibility are missing the forest for the trees.  Sedevacantists often overreact to this error by promoting an extreme view of infallibility that goes too far, when the battle needs to be waged on the level of indefectibility.

    I immediately noticed that the logical trajectory of +Vigano's June 9th letter is toward sedevacantism.  Thus far he has held back, instead using the same infallibility argument used by R&R.

    All good points.

    That "an Ecumenical Council of the Church can lead to the creation of a parallel anti-Church," and "the Church can promulgate and use a Rite of Mass that displeases God (a Protestantized/paganized Mass as Vigano calls it) and cannot be attended by Catholics in good conscience," are signs, unprecedented in history, that instruct Christ's sheep to "exite de illa" (Apoc. 18:4), or "come out of her" my people.

    Men have been proclaiming Christ's imminent return since Christ left us on various bases, and of course they were wrong. But the "signs" they saw were unlike the signs mentioned above, which point to a defect in what purports to be the Catholic Church, which, as you say, cannot be without violating an inviolable principle, indefectibility.


    Quote
    Matthew 16:1-3

    And there came to him the Pharisees and Sadducees tempting: and they asked him to shew them a sign from heaven.
    Et accesserunt ad eum pharisaei et sadducaei tentantes : et rogaverunt eum ut signum de caelo ostenderet eis.
    [2] But he answered and said to them: When it is evening, you say, It will be fair weather, for the sky is red.
    At ille respondens, ait illis : Facto vespere dicitis : Serenum erit, rubicundum est enim caelum.
    [3] And in the morning: Today there will be a storm, for the sky is red and lowering. You know then how to discern the face of the sky: and can you not know the signs of the times?
    Et mane : Hodie tempestas, rutilat enim triste caelum.

    Quote
    Matthew 24:14-16
    And this gospel of the kingdom, shall be preached in the whole world, for a testimony to all nations, and then shall the consummation come.
    Et praedicabitur hoc Evangelium regni in universo orbe, in testimonium omnibus gentibus : et tunc veniet consummatio.
    [15] When therefore you shall see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place: he that readeth let him understand.
    Cum ergo videritis abominationem desolationis, quae dicta est a Daniele propheta, stantem in loco sancto, qui legit, intelligat :
    [16] Then they that are in Judea, let them flee to the mountains:
    tunc qui in Judaea sunt, fugiant ad montes :

    http://www.drbo.org/drl/chapter/47024.htm

    I believe in the Apostolic Catholic Church. I reject and denounce the malfeasant or “dysfunctional papal or episcopal Newchurch.” - Father Paul Trinchard

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
    « Reply #33 on: June 30, 2020, 08:39:03 AM »
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  • Right.  I've made this same point repeatedly.  One can quibble about the precise extent of infallibility, but this is a question of the Church's indefectibility.  To say that an Ecumenical Council of the Church can lead to the creation of a parallel anti-Church is contrary to the overall indefectibility of the Magisterium and of the Church as a whole.  To say that the Church can promulgate and use a Rite of Mass that displeases God (a Protestantized/paganized Mass as Vigano calls it) and cannot be attended by Catholics in good conscience is contrary to the Church's disciplinary infallibility.

    R&R who keep pushing the narrow view of infallibility are missing the forest for the trees.  Sedevacantists often overreact to this error by promoting an extreme view of infallibility that goes too far, when the battle needs to be waged on the level of indefectibility.

    I immediately noticed that the logical trajectory of +Vigano's June 9th letter is toward sedevacantism.  Thus far he has held back, instead using the same infallibility argument used by R&R.
    I think this is because he was responding to Phil Lawler.  Vigano's writings continue to change depending upon his audience.  I would like to see what he writes a sedevacantist.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
    « Reply #34 on: June 30, 2020, 01:26:11 PM »
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  • I think this is because he was responding to Phil Lawler.  Vigano's writings continue to change depending upon his audience.  I would like to see what he writes a sedevacantist.

    I very much doubt that sedeism is on Vigano's radar. He has too much sense for that.
    "This forum is a space for discussion to defend the Catholic Faith following Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre. It is therefore not for rallying to the conciliar church nor for sedevacantism"
    - From the French Resistance forum (Francophone forum, in France)


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
    « Reply #35 on: June 30, 2020, 02:36:57 PM »
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  • I very much doubt that sedeism is on Vigano's radar. He has too much sense for that.
    Just quoting this for future reference.
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17


     

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