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Author Topic: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler  (Read 6592 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2020, 04:54:59 PM »
Bishop Sanborn:


Quote
It is impossible to assert that the Council is the mother of a false and parallel Church, but that it was promulgated to us by a true pope. To hold that such a deviation comes from the authority of Christ vested in the pope undermines the Catholic edifice from its foundation, to use Archbishop Viganò’s own words.


Bingo.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2020, 05:29:32 PM »
4th to last paragraph.  You must’ve missed this part:
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Quote
The authority and infallibility of the Successor of the Prince of the Apostles will emerge intact and reconfirmed. In fact, they were not deliberately called into question at Vatican II, but ironically they would be on a future day in which a Pontiff would correct the errors that that Council permitted, playing jests with the equivocation of an authority it officially denied having but that the faithful were surreptitiously allowed to understand that it did have by the entire Hierarchy, beginning right with the Popes of the Council.
He’s saying the “popes of the council” allowed the false idea that V2 was doctrinal to spread in the media, even though they admitted it wasn’t doctrinal.  They are guilty of all the heresies of V2 by being accessory to the lie and remaining silent for decades.  
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J23 and P6 still may be judged anti-pope’s in the future but not because V2 was a doctrinal council that proclaimed heresy.  Just for many other 100s of reasons. 


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2020, 07:10:48 PM »
Bishop Sanborn:



Bingo.

Right.  I've made this same point repeatedly.  One can quibble about the precise extent of infallibility, but this is a question of the Church's indefectibility.  To say that an Ecuмenical Council of the Church can lead to the creation of a parallel anti-Church is contrary to the overall indefectibility of the Magisterium and of the Church as a whole.  To say that the Church can promulgate and use a Rite of Mass that displeases God (a Protestantized/paganized Mass as Vigano calls it) and cannot be attended by Catholics in good conscience is contrary to the Church's disciplinary infallibility.

R&R who keep pushing the narrow view of infallibility are missing the forest for the trees.  Sedevacantists often overreact to this error by promoting an extreme view of infallibility that goes too far, when the battle needs to be waged on the level of indefectibility.

I immediately noticed that the logical trajectory of +Vigano's June 9th letter is toward sedevacantism.  Thus far he has held back, instead using the same infallibility argument used by R&R.


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2020, 07:54:13 PM »
Lets not argue about what Vigano SHOULD'VE said, let’s just stick to what he did say.  +Sanborn’s conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow from Vigano’s interview.  That’s the point.  I’m not being anti-Sanborn, nor anti-sede, just anti-editorial commenting. 

Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2020, 08:13:55 PM »
Lets not argue about what Vigano SHOULD'VE said, let’s just stick to what he did say.  +Sanborn’s conclusion doesn’t necessarily follow from Vigano’s interview.  That’s the point.  I’m not being anti-Sanborn, nor anti-sede, just anti-editorial commenting.
That's because I think Bishop Sanborn is responding to the original letter of June 9, not this latest interview.  He may not even know about these comments.