Author Topic: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler (Read 6612 times)

Marys Anawim · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2020, 01:54:09 PM »

I stand with Vigano, but this is too deep for me...pregnancy brain strikes again LOL

Ladislaus · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2020, 07:21:39 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 27, 2020, 11:39:23 AM

They are irreconcilable.

SP is SV with makeup.

You're wrong, Sean. Father Chazal is closer to SP than SV is. SP says that these men lack formal authority on account of heresy, despite the fact that they have been elected to the office. That's almost identical to Father Chazal's position. Like Father Chazal (following John of St. Thomas et al.), SP admits that it would be necessary for the Church to materially depose such popes and that private individuals lack the authority to do so.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #17 on:** June 27, 2020, 07:25:24 PM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 27, 2020, 11:42:41 AM

Chazal is classical R&R, despite your lying efforts to turn him into some kind of sede-something.

Pure and utter garbage, Sean. You're desperate and pathetic. And your saying so doesn't make it true. You keep claiming this but can't and won't refute the distinction between Chazal and Classic R&R.

Classic R&R: V2 popes have authority and Catholics are obliged to obey them when they teach the truth but must disobey when they teach or command error.

Chazal: V2 popes, being manifest heretics, categorically lack all authority and can and must be completely ignored. Yet they remain in office until the Church removes them.

Classic R&R hems and haws about whether the V2 popes are in fact heretics and to what degree, whereas Chazal admits that he concedes to the sedevacantists that these men are manifest heretics. He simply opts for the Catjetan/John of St. Thomas position rather than Bellarmine's, that these men are deponendi but not ipso facto depositus.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #18 on:** June 27, 2020, 07:29:26 PM »

And top it with the stupid sede-something (akin to Meg's sede-whateverism). If you believe that the See is occupied, then you're a sede-whateverist also, a sedeplenist.

For the record, neither +Lefebvre, nor +Castro de Mayer, nor +Williamson, nor +Tissier are sedeplenists. They have all publicly doubted the legitimacy of the V2 popes, which you cannot do if you consider their legitimacy to be dogmatic fact ... as sedeplenism requires. This is the position I have termed sede-doubtism.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #19 on:** June 27, 2020, 07:33:25 PM »

Quote from: Meg on June 27, 2020, 12:15:18 PM

Very true! Though the SP's will never admit it. They are so obsessively focused on the Pope question, that they can't think of much else.

vs. Archbishop Lefebvre

Quote

“Now some priests (even some priests in the Society) say that we Catholics need not worry about what is happening in the Vatican; we have the true sacraments, the true Mass, the true doctrine, so why worry about whether the pope is heretic or an impostor or whatever; it is of no importance to us. But I think that is not true. If any man is important in the Church it is the pope.” (Talk, March 30 and April 18, 1986, text published in The Angelus, July 1986)

and

Quote

“…a grave problem confronts the conscience and the faith of all Catholics since the beginning of Paul VI’s pontificate: how can a pope who is truly successor of Peter, to whom the assistance of the Holy Ghost has been promised, preside over the most radical and far-reaching destruction of the Church ever known, in so short a time, beyond what any heresiarch has ever achieved? This question must one day be answered…” (Le Figaro, August 4, 1976)

It's the papacy and the Magisterium which separates Catholicism from Protestantism.

R&R, however, is barely distinguishable from Protestantism or Old Catholicism.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler (Read 6612 times)

Marys Anawim

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Ladislaus

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Ladislaus

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Ladislaus

Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler

Ladislaus

Re: Vigano Interview with Phil Lawler