Author Topic: SSPX had saintly ABL. Who do the sedes got? (Read 3668 times)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #45 on:** January 03, 2024, 01:57:25 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on January 03, 2024, 12:15:18 PM

So in my opinion +Thuc is a lesser hero.

But back to my question -- if we're looking for a sign from God where I should go to keep the Faith during this Crisis, where do I go if I'm convinced +Thuc is "providential enough" to follow? He is deceased after all. We're not talking mostly about history here, we're talking about practical application a.k.a. "WHERE SHOULD I GO TO MASS?"

Some random +Thuc-line priest or bishop isn't good enough to "count as +Thuc", unless they followed some organization, training regimen, blueprint, or leadership given to them by +Thuc. Merely getting Holy Orders from +Thuc doesn't give them a unified "brand" of some sort. When it comes to Independent priests, it's completely luck of the draw, pot luck, your mileage may vary.

+ABL designed the curriculum (including Ignatian Retreats) to form priests a certain way, using his providential and vast experience. He also wrote numerous sermons, books, etc. which were transcribed and distributed to his students. So much so, that even years later you could say that this organization he founded, these priests he formed, still had "his position", "his spirit" and there was solid continuity with +ABL himself.

The success and growth of the SSPX suggests, to me, that God wanted to ensure that there was AT LEAST ONE solid, highly visible, option for Catholics of good will to take refuge in during the time of unprecedented confusion. Yes, He allowed for others here or there, as "bonus options", "misc", or "icing on the cake" of Tradition -- but the one He took care to guide personally was +ABL and his SSPX.

No two +Thuc-line bishops or priests are the same. There is nothing in common among them, except where they got their Orders. +ABL had numerous writings, an organization, a whole philosophy and curriculum which formed a new generation of Traditional priests. +Thuc doesn't have that.

Even if you want to say +Thuc was as big of a saint or hero as +ABL, it still leaves us empty handed regarding how to ACT on that. We can't buy books or sermons by +Thuc, nor can we go to any network of chapels he set up. He only did the ordaining, period.

Matthew, each one of us goes to what God has made available to us. We have near me Father Leo Carley, in independent priest who's been as active as long as the SSPX have been around.

So, are you saying that people should go to the SSPX and not to the Resistance? Is the Resistance some "bonus option" also?

Matthew · « **Reply #46 on:** January 03, 2024, 02:47:17 PM »

Nope, every time I say "SSPX" you now have to say "Resistance".

Just like in the 1000's you could say "Christian" but after the Protestant Revolt you had to say "Catholic" instead to get the same idea across.

Then at Vatican II you had to add "Traditional" to distinguish yourself from the worldly, ignorant, wishy washy, mostly protestant Novus Ordo Catholics.

SSPX used to mean "+ABL's position", but we all know they started changing externally, visibly in 2012. Some changes preceded that date.

So every time I say "SSPX is where it's at" I mean "SSPX up to a certain year, then the SSPX continuation which is the Resistance".

2Vermont · « **Reply #47 on:** January 03, 2024, 02:53:52 PM »

Quote from: Matthew on January 03, 2024, 12:15:18 PM

Some random +Thuc-line priest or bishop isn't good enough to "count as +Thuc", unless they followed some organization, training regimen, blueprint, or leadership

CMRI via Bishop Pivarunas.

Here are a couple of podcasts describing the beginnings and history of the CMRI (Catholic Family Podcast's Kevin Davis interviews Father Benedict Hughes).

They have cast off the Schuckhardt baggage (that is, if people would allow them to) and have shown dramatic increases in lay and religious numbers. Perhaps those who truly want to learn more about the CMRI will give them a listen:

The History of the CMRI: In Defense of Archbishop Thuc (youtube.com)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #48 on:** January 06, 2024, 05:28:03 PM »

Quote from: AveReginaMatris on January 06, 2024, 04:37:47 PM

And for the record, if archbishop Lefebvre was prudent in his ways, I agree. He had prudence, prudence of the flesh, not of the spirit. Because spiritual prudence doesn't contradict church dogma, nor divine and church law that teaches that the church is one, holy, catholic and apostolic, that its also infallible and indefectible, and cannot possibly teach nor allow error, heresy or sin to be promulgated officially ...

See, +Lefebvre did not deny these things but repeatedly affirmed them. You don't seem to have been following on some of the other threads.

AnthonyPadua · « **Reply #49 on:** January 06, 2024, 05:39:51 PM »

I think he did a overall good job considering the situation but made big mistakes with his statements on salvation outside the church by the church, and BoD.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #50 on:** January 06, 2024, 05:58:24 PM »

Quote from: AnthonyPadua on January 06, 2024, 05:39:51 PM

I think he did a overall good job considering the situation but made big mistakes with his statements on salvation outside the church by the church, and BoD.

Agreed, but then so has pretty much every Trad cleric.

Author Topic: SSPX had saintly ABL. Who do the sedes got? (Read 3668 times)

Ladislaus

Re: SSPX had saintly ABL. Who do the sedes got?

Matthew

Re: SSPX had saintly ABL. Who do the sedes got?

2Vermont

Re: SSPX had saintly ABL. Who do the sedes got?

Ladislaus

Re: SSPX had saintly ABL. Who do the sedes got?

AnthonyPadua

Re: SSPX had saintly ABL. Who do the sedes got?

Ladislaus

Re: SSPX had saintly ABL. Who do the sedes got?