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Author Topic: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy  (Read 4650 times)

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Re: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2020, 12:47:14 AM »
As to Archbishop Thuc there are a few statements of his that are out there that are very BAD. These are docuмented and I will give the source so all of you will be able to find them. Let the Archbishop speak for himself.

 1. “ ‘Concerning the attraction of non-Christians to the Church.’ With great consolation I see present in these assem-
blies the delegates of the non-Christian Churches, to be witnesses of our fraternity, sincerity and liberty. But where are

the delegates or observers of the non-Christians? ...The scandal coming to the whole world from the absence of any
invitations sent to the chiefs of the non-Christian religions I expounded in the central commission—but in vain. I
earnestly begged the council to make good the omission, so that this most loathsome discrimination between some
religions may no longer be found. This absence of an invitation to the heads of the Christian religions confirms in a
certain manner that prejudice creeping through the Asiatic and African world: ‘The Catholic Church is a church for
men of white colour and not for coloured men.’” (Acta Synodalia Vaticani II, vol. 2, part 1, pp. 358-359)
2. “...it seems to me an extraordinary thing that in the schema concerning the people of God, express mention
is nowhere made of women, so that the Church appears totally masculine, whereas the reality is quite different. Do
not women constitute the greater part of the laity—even of ecclesiastical prescriptions? Of course I well know the
Church had to behave like this in order not to offend the prejudices of those ages. Thus, St. Paul imposed the veil
on women in Church, lest they displease the angels. So why must men proudly enter the church bareheaded which
is contrary to the custom of clerics today both in the West and the East? In the same way, silence was imposed on
women whereas in this Basilica the walls recently resounded to the voices of the Fathers. So too, nuns must obtain
the permission of churches to wash the sacred linens. And likewise this unjust discrimination appears here and now

in this conciliar hall... Why is it that in our atomic age, when almost everywhere in the world women have ob-
tained juridical equality with men, it is only in the Church of Christ that they still suffer these injurious discrimi-
nations... I eagerly seek... these discriminations against the most valiant sex be eradicated. Last, of all I shall be

grateful to him who can present me with a plain apodictic text of the Gospel which excludes the sisters of the
Blessed Virgin Mary from the sacred functions [i.e. the priesthood].” (Acta Synodalia Vaticani II, vol. 2, part 3, pp.513

Re: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2020, 09:32:29 AM »
Yes, true, but I think what he was getting at was not oppositional to St. Bellarmine or his theology, but the notion that laymen on their own accord would  use it subjectively/privately to declare the Holy See vacant.

Also often forgotten is that St. Bellarmine didn’t actually believe the situation of an heretical pope could ever arise, and his writing on the subject is therefore largely hypothetical (ie., Much like St. Thomas More’s “Utopia,” Bellarmine is discussing things he didn’t believe could happen, and giving his abstract thoughts for the sake of argument).
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Well, that is a problem (in his view, anyways) that applies to traditionalist methods as such, not to sedevacantist 'arguments.' 
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All traditionalists use private judgment to 'declare' that the conciliar magisterium is at odds with the Catholic magisterium, that the New Mass is fraudulent, and so forth.  Sedevacantists use this method no more or less than any other traditionalist uses it. 
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Serp Kerp can actually make this argument, if he accepts Vatican II (by the hermeneutic of continuity, I assume).  But I do not see how any traditionalist could make that argument for very long before it collapses inward.


Re: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2020, 09:39:18 AM »
Thuc is a complicated character, but there are two extremes that ought to be avoided.  On the one hand, people like Bishop Kelly (and his supporters) are utterly unforgiving and unreasonable in their assessment, acknowledging only the scuмmier of the Thuc consecrations, and only ever interpreting them as either a function of Thuc's insanity or unorthodoxy (when I would maintain the best interpretation is simply that he was conned).  On the other hand, some sedevacantists want to make him out to be the sedevacantist ABL, and this view also has to be very selective in its reading of history, because Thuc was not much of a leader and he made some mistakes that have to be acknowledged.
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Thuc is a pitiable figure who I think did his best.  That includes providing three very good and capable bishops (Carmona, Guerard des Lauriers, and Zamora) who were strong leaders and who helped grow the traditionalist priesthood.  That also includes a lamentable level of credulity, especially early on, with the Palmarian consecrations; as well as a potential for being bullied and manipulated by those with power (e.g. his vacillations with the Vatican).  It is easy to understand why he is such a polarizing figure, given the highs and lows of his ministry, but a charitable approach will generate a more balanced view of the man and his life.

Re: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2020, 10:48:36 AM »
Very well stated Mit!

The Archbishop of South Vietnam was a most complex character.

But how many Catholics would have been able to persevere the times as he did?







His brother, President Diem was αssαssιnαtҽd and his country was subsequently blown apart by the Vietnam War.






He was excommunicated by one of the sleaziest, revolutionary jew popes, the world has ever known.


And he was conned, abused and misused in America, as you said.


But he was an Archbishop in a time of severe Canonical crisis

And he conferred the Sacraments, without having the protection or backing of the likes of the Pallavacini "Black Nobility" or Mr. Lovey.















He made mistakes, but we should be thankful for his fortitude and perseverance to Catholic tradition.


Re: Video: Archbishop Thuc and his Legacy
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2020, 02:19:36 AM »
He was made an Archbishop by John XXIII who started Vatican Council II and was pretty close to Paul VI. Paul VI continued what John XXIII started.