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Author Topic: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child  (Read 3005 times)

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Offline RandomFish

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Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
« on: September 13, 2023, 07:25:27 PM »
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  • It seems that the Vatican II development is now complete.

    First stage of the development was lex orandi lex credendi; a Mass could be offered for an unbaptized infant who died.

    Second stage was Ratzinger’s International Theological Commission “Hope of Salvation” theology akin to Balthazar’s “Dare We Hope That All May Be Saved?”: https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_docuмents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html

    Third stage, Francis’ sacramental-ecclesial revolution of Baptism in numerous speeches, most notoriously  - Let us consider, dear brothers and sisters, that in Christ no one can ever truly separate us from those we love because the bond is an existential bond, a strong bond that is in our very nature; only the manner of being together with  each of them changes, but nothing and no one can break this bond. “Father, let us think about those who have denied the faith, who are apostates, who are the persecutors of the Church, who have denied their baptism: Are these also at home?”. Yes, these too, even the blasphemers, everyone. We are brothers. This is the communion of saints. The communion of saints holds together the community of believers on earth and in heaven - 

    https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/audiences/2022/docuмents/20220202-udienza-generale.html

    And even worse: 

    "Who is more important in the Church: the religious sister or the ordinary person, the baptised, the unbaptised, the child, the bishop? They are all equal, we are equal,” Francis said during his March 15 General Audience.

    And now, the revolution is complete with the beatification of an unborn child who was unbaptized, cementing in practice, the idea that baptism is truly superfluous: 

    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/amp/news/255332/ulma-family-beatified-on-a-day-of-joy-in-poland

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #1 on: September 13, 2023, 07:30:03 PM »
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  • Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    Some of the Holy Innocents were unborn.
    There's nothing heterodox by saying an unborn child can go to heaven, but I understand what you're saying about Modernist Rome's spin on it.
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    Offline RandomFish

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #2 on: September 13, 2023, 07:31:08 PM »
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  • It is ironic that Baptism of Blood and Baptism of Desire end up putting the final nail in the coffin of sacramental baptism.

    Indeed, Rahner’s Anonymous Christian is the new ecclesiology. 

    Fr. Feeney’s supporters must feel an overwhelming sense of prophetic fulfillment and justification.

    Offline RandomFish

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #3 on: September 13, 2023, 07:34:28 PM »
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  • Some of the Holy Innocents were unborn.
    There's nothing heterodox by saying an unborn child can go to heaven, but I understand what you're saying about Modernist Rome's spin on it.

    The Holy Innocents came before the promulgation of the Gospel and prior to the sacramental institution of Baptism.

    Catechism of the Council of Trent, Baptism made obligatory after Christ’s Resurrection:

    “Holy writers are unanimous in saying that after the Resurrection of our Lord, when He gave His Apostles the command to go and teach all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, the law of Baptism became obligatory on all who were to be saved.”

    P. 171 of the standard English translation by Fathers Callan & McHugh.

    Online AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #4 on: September 13, 2023, 08:22:23 PM »
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  • Some of the Holy Innocents were unborn.
    There's nothing heterodox by saying an unborn child can go to heaven, but I understand what you're saying about Modernist Rome's spin on it.
    BoB is a false doctrine. The Holy Innocents died under the old law.

    Quote
    Pope Eugene IV, “Cantate Domino", Council of Florence

    "It firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels”, unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church."



    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #5 on: September 15, 2023, 05:54:47 PM »
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  • Some of the Holy Innocents were unborn.
    Where did you hear this?  I've never seen this at all.  In fact, it doesn't make sense that Herod would kill any unborn child as he had specifically been told of "he that is born king of the Jews".  

    Did you just make this up?

    Offline Geremia

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #6 on: September 16, 2023, 03:38:52 PM »
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  • Where did you hear this?

    Quote
    Matt 2:16 Then Herod perceiving that he was deluded by the wise men, was exceeding angry: and sending killed all the menchildren [παίδας, pueros] that were in Bethlehem, and in all the borders thereof, from two years old and under [διετούς και κατωτέρω, bimatu et infra], according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.

    NT Greek doesn't distinguish born and unborn infants—e.g., the same word (βρέφος) for infant is used in Lk. 18:15 ("And they brought unto him also [born] infants") as in Lk. 1:41 ("the [unborn] infant leaped in her womb").
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #7 on: September 16, 2023, 06:20:43 PM »
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  • And even worse:

    "Who is more important in the Church: the religious sister or the ordinary person, the baptised, the unbaptised, the child, the bishop? They are all equal, we are equal,” Francis said during his March 15 General Audience.

    That's openly heretical.  Unbaptized are not "in the Church".  Baptism is the entry into the Church.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #8 on: September 16, 2023, 06:23:01 PM »
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  • Some of the Holy Innocents were unborn.
    There's nothing heterodox by saying an unborn child can go to heaven, but I understand what you're saying about Modernist Rome's spin on it.

    This shows how far even Trads are contaminated by centuries of attacks against Catholic ecclesiology and soteriology.  Holy Innocents were also before the Sacrament of Baptism was instituted.  Not to mention that they were not "unborn".

    Claiming that unbaptized unborn children can go to Heaven is heretical, has been condemned by numerous Popes and Councils, and is nothing short of Pelagianism.

    Sad that we have stuff like this posted be self-styled Trads.

    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #9 on: September 16, 2023, 06:27:28 PM »
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  • NT Greek doesn't distinguish born and unborn infants—e.g., the same word (βρέφος) for infant is used in Lk. 18:15 ("And they brought unto him also [born] infants") as in Lk. 1:41 ("the [unborn] infant leaped in her womb").
    I'd like to see one pre-Vatican 2 theologian who agree with your assessment.  As I noted above, Herod was looking for "he that is born King of the Jews", according to the Magi.  He was not seeking for an unborn infant.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #10 on: September 16, 2023, 06:28:26 PM »
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  • And of course, this is also another step towards the canonization of the h0Ɩ0h0αx, since they ...
    Quote
    ... were martyred during World War II for sheltering two Jєωιѕн families from the nαzιs.

    Uhm, yeah, so this constitutes martyrdom these days.

    Bergoglio constantly insults the martyr saints, many of whom gave their lives for what Jorge denounces as being "rigid" about dogma, or for what Jorge would consider sinful, such as when St. Christina was martyred for smashing her father's idols, or because they wouldn't accept Cranmer's liturgy, worse than which Jorge is trying to force on all Catholics today, and now Jorge waters down martyrdom where it has to have nothing to do with the faith, but for what was at best an act of natural virtue.  Disgusting on so many levels.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #11 on: September 16, 2023, 06:30:29 PM »
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  • I'd like to see one pre-Vatican 2 theologian who agree with your assessment.  As I noted above, Herod was looking for "he that is born King of the Jews", according to the Magi.  He was not seeking for an unborn infant.

    Correct.  Herod knew that the Messiah had been born within the past 2 years.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #12 on: September 17, 2023, 12:01:31 AM »
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  • So much… too much… enough to drive a man to despair. Come Holy Ghost…!

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #13 on: September 17, 2023, 07:53:48 AM »
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  • Some of the Holy Innocents were unborn.
    There's nothing heterodox by saying an unborn child can go to heaven, but I understand what you're saying about Modernist Rome's spin on it.

    Sorry Geremia, but this is heretical. Before one reaches the age of reason, that person cannot possibly be saved unless they have received the actual sacrament of baptism.
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: Vatican Set to Beatify Unborn Child
    « Reply #14 on: September 17, 2023, 12:47:09 PM »
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  • By stating that the unborn can go to Heaven is he implying that the babies were removed from the wombs of the pregnant mothers or is he implying that pregnant women were killed thus murdering the unborn as well?  

    Either way, can someone point of the passage in any preV2 catechism that states that the unborn might be saved?  I'm not familiar with this doctrine.