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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Johannes on April 26, 2025, 08:49:10 AM

Title: Vatican II Crisis worse than the Arian Crisis?
Post by: Johannes on April 26, 2025, 08:49:10 AM
During the Arian Crisis around 98% of the Western bishops apostatized.

We know that at least on one occasion around 4 thousand faithful Catholics followed St. Athanasius out into the desert to die miserable deaths rather than stay in communion with heretic bishops.

But surely millions of "Christians" were quite satisfied to stay comfortably where they were with their families, jobs, homes, etc. So, it can easily be surmised that 98% of the Western "Catholics" of that time apostatized too.

St. Hermengild's feast was just on April 13th. Here is what Dom Gueranger in "The Liturgical Year" has to say about him:

"It is through a Martyr’s palm-branch that we must to-day see the Paschal Mystery. Hermenegild, a young Visigoth Prince, is put to death by his heretical father, because he courageously refused to receive his Easter Communion from an Arian Bishop. The Martyr knew that the Eucharist is the sacred symbol of Catholic unity; and that we are not allowed to approach the Holy Table in company with them that are not in the true Church. A sacrilegious consecration gives heretics the real possession of the Divine Mystery, if the priestly character be in him who dares to offer Sacrifice to the God whom he blasphemes; but the Catholic, who knows that he may not so much as pray with ‘heretics, shudders at the sight of the profanation, and would rather die than share, by his presence, in insulting our Redeemer in that very Sacrifice and Sacrament, which were instituted that we might all be made one in God."

Dom Gueranguer's Liturgical Year : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive (https://archive.org/details/Litur-829183819919/Volume_08%2C_The_Liturgical_Year_Paschal_Time%2C_Volume_2_by_Prosper/page/347/mode/2up)

In summary, to partake of the Eucharist with heretics, or to receive it from the hands of one who is a heretic is a "sacrilegious profanation".

So, is the current Crisis worse than the Arian one, or not? If it is not, then it is very probable that most everyone on CathInfo is outside the Church and making a HUGE fuss about nothing.

Title: Re: Vatican II Crisis worse than the Arian Crisis?
Post by: Twice dyed on April 26, 2025, 10:21:41 AM
Interesting! That's why I left neoSspx...they are today "practically speaking" under Novus Ordo 'bishops" for some sacraments, esp Matrimony. One cannot be in communion with the Eternal Rome if you then decide to collaborate with evil modernists. 
Hopefully God will intervene sooner than later, we have to pray +
Title: Re: Vatican II Crisis worse than the Arian Crisis?
Post by: Matthew on April 26, 2025, 10:46:56 AM
We're in the realm of opinion here (and I *always* give that disclaimer when I'm about to utter an opinion, rather than hard, objective facts and/or Church teaching)

So my opinion is that we are in the worst crisis the Church has ever faced, bar none. Ok, I'll grant one possible exception -- when 10 of the 11 surviving Apostles had fled, and Our Lord was on the Cross. That was the last time things were this bad.

Early persecutions? doctrine wasn't ever in danger. The Faith was strong, souls were saved. What else matters?
Arian Crisis? yawn.
Great Schism? Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.
Protestant Revolt? yawn.
All the heresies over the ages? "cute" compared to Modernism.

I'm exaggerating slightly. I don't really mean those events were yawn-worthy -- only by comparison with our own age ;)

Saints from all those ages would take off their hat to us, and be more anxious to talk to US about OUR experiences and sufferings living through the Great Heresy of Modernism and the Crisis in the Church, than we would be to talk to them about living through their own difficult times.

So I 100% disagree with Bishop Fellay, in his strong movement to downplay Vatican II as a "superheresy". No, it absolutely IS a superheresy, absolutely IS the boogeyman. That's how I was raised as a Trad, and that's how I'll die. I'm not interested AT ALL in mitigating or moderating that position.

You can't praise God enough.
You can't be too devoted to Our Lady, or love her too much.
...and, you can't excoriate and hate Vatican II enough.

Yes, I'm saying that we have to reject and despise Vatican II with our whole heart, and our whole mind, and our whole strength. The 100% full-throttle love of God we are commanded to have, and the 100% effort to hate error, absolutely go together. The more you love God, the more you hate that which is opposed to God and displeases Him. Starting with sin, and error is closely linked to it. Vatican II is a septic tank of error filled with seeds of sin and blasphemy.

Some things can't be exaggerated. The goodness of God, the holiness of Our Lady, and the evil of Vatican II.
Title: Re: Vatican II Crisis worse than the Arian Crisis?
Post by: Matthew on April 26, 2025, 11:06:34 AM
Ok, now that I've addressed Vatican II, let's address the UTTER GARBAGE that was posted in the OP.

What home-aloner, schismatic, competition-destroying (self-serving) GARBAGE, calculated to destroy unity among Traditional Catholic faithful.

Attending Mass offered by an Arian priest/bishop was one matter. Praiseworthy to avoid it.
Changing YOUR Mass, because the bad guys (including the Pope) are in power, obsessing and paranoid that God is going to "misunderstand" and condemn you, on the grounds that we're in union with the heresy of the occupying force or some s***, is ridiculous.

This reeks of home-alone-ism bait, or Cekada's primary error he taught: his novel "anti-Una cuм" position. Which was never heard of before him.

When we unite with the Priest at the Mass, it is clearly with the unspotted bride of the Church, which is completely without sin -- not any of the sins or errors held by any of its members. Not even those of the Pope.

You have to raise your IQ up a bit. When we pray for the Pope's Intentions for example, there are certain official intentions that the Pope, as Pope, must have. Even if he personally doesn't have those intentions, or never thinks about them. For example: the conversion of the heathen, etc. Now the individual Pope might have other desires of his heart, such as stopping climate change or other woke nonsense. But those are not "the Intentions of the Holy Father"; those are "the intentions of Jorge Bergoglio". There are intentions AS POPE and intentions AS A PRIVATE MAN.

Now apply this to the Mass, and the connections, associations, and unity made therein. Then you will understand.
Title: Re: Vatican II Crisis worse than the Arian Crisis?
Post by: Matthew on April 26, 2025, 10:27:40 PM
Johannes went full self-destruct mode (and full retard) and threw out the forum equivalent of , "...and you can't fire me, because I quit!"

I don't know what his problem was this morning. Did someone piss in his cheerios? Even if someone did, that wasn't my fault.

But honestly, he really didn't belong here. His sympathies mostly lie with the Orthodox (schismatics).

Insofar as he pretended to be a "Trad", I notice he picked a "position" (if he even had one) that basically sprayed machine gun fire at all and sundry, and did maximum damage to the Trad world taken as a whole. That is because he is not Trad, nor is he sympathetic with the Traditional Catholic movement. In his heart of hearts, he is Orthodox (schismatic). May God have mercy on his wayward soul.

I got rid of most of his schismatic posts. I only left the posts that started new threads.
Title: Re: Vatican II Crisis worse than the Arian Crisis?
Post by: Pax Vobis on April 26, 2025, 11:15:56 PM
Yeah, most of his posts were very divisive and antagonistic.  
Title: Re: Vatican II Crisis worse than the Arian Crisis?
Post by: Matthew on April 27, 2025, 12:22:52 AM
Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 26, 2025, 11:15:56 PM
Yeah, most of his posts were very divisive and antagonistic. 

Fortunately, most of his posts "were" rather than "are".

For some reason the system still shows him having 600+ posts. But trust me, he doesn't. Go into his profile and click "view posts" -- there are only 4 pages of them now. One post for each thread he started. That's it.
Title: Re: Vatican II Crisis worse than the Arian Crisis?
Post by: Stubborn on April 27, 2025, 05:50:02 AM
Quote from: Matthew on April 26, 2025, 10:27:40 PM
Johannes went full self-destruct mode (and full retard) and threw out the forum equivalent of , "...and you can't fire me, because I quit!"

I don't know what his problem was this morning. Did someone piss in his cheerios? Even if someone did, that wasn't my fault.

But honestly, he really didn't belong here. His sympathies mostly lie with the Orthodox (schismatics).

Insofar as he pretended to be a "Trad", I notice he picked a "position" (if he even had one) that basically sprayed machine gun fire at all and sundry, and did maximum damage to the Trad world taken as a whole. That is because he is not Trad, nor is he sympathetic with the Traditional Catholic movement. In his heart of hearts, he is Orthodox (schismatic). May God have mercy on his wayward soul.

I got rid of most of his schismatic posts. I only left the posts that started new threads.
Thank you Matthew, I was wondering how much of that guy you would take. 
Title: Re: Vatican II Crisis worse than the Arian Crisis?
Post by: ElwinRansom1970 on April 27, 2025, 10:04:11 AM
Quote from: Matthew on April 26, 2025, 10:27:40 PM
Johannes went full self-destruct mode (and full retard) and threw out the forum equivalent of , "...and you can't fire me, because I quit!"

I love Johannes' reputation ratio of likes-to-dislikes! :laugh2:

I stand proudly (in the non-sinful sense) at a consistent 81% approval rating for my reputation score.

Johannes had a -32% approval rating, or, in other words, a 68% DISAPPROVAL rating! :facepalm: