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Author Topic: Vatican's "Manger of Darkness"  (Read 5979 times)

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Offline PG

Re: Vatican's "Manger of Darkness"
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2017, 11:34:14 AM »
Do you think Michaelangelo with his nude crucifixion, multitude of nudes, and buttocks of God would approve of this?  Probably.  I mean, where do you think he learned how to carve such sculptures?  He learned to from exposed dead people.  So, the corpse in this nativity scene isn't so far off.  Rome has a long tradition of the utilizing the dead corpse.   So, if you aren't going to complain about the causes, don't complain about the symptoms.  

Re: Vatican's "Manger of Darkness"
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2017, 01:33:05 PM »
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So this is the latest outrage. It fits the pattern.
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In past years, there have been scandals in the manger scene at St. Peter's Basilica, too.
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In 2014 a topless woman FEMEN protestor snatched the infant Jesus from the crib the day after the Pope had placed Him there.
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About 3 years ago I recall hearing about an alarming fad of stealing the infant Jesus from Nativity scenes all over the world but I never looked up the story behind it.
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Here's one article still found online:
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https://www.rt.com/news/217703-femen-topless-jesus-christmas/
Published time: 25 Dec, 2014 21:08
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A topless FEMEN protester tried to kidnap Baby Jesus from the manger at St. Peter's Square in Vatican City after the Pope's Christmas message on Thursday. The activist was stopped and arrested in front of shocked believers.
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With the words “God is woman” painted across her naked chest, the activist squeezed though a hole in a fence surrounding the nativity scene.
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The woman rushed to the manger in the center of the square, grabbed the Jesus figurine, and raised it above her head while shouting slogans against the Catholic Church. However, a Vatican guard was quick to block her. The activist was quickly covered with a coat and handed over to police.

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The Jesus figurine was unveiled by the Pope during the Christmas Eve mass on Wednesday.
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READ MORE: Femen branch pelts Belgian PM with chips and mayo (VIDEO)
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The action was in protest against “the centuries-old Vatican stance on women's rights for own body and reproductive function,” the group's webpage states. FEMEN has announced an anti-clerical "Massacre of the Innocents" campaign, calling for the stealing of Baby Jesus from churches around the world.
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“The maniacal desire to control women's fertility is a common trait of many religions, National Socialism, nationalism and other antediluvian, anti-humanist ideologies. Abortion is sacred,”the group says on its site.
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This is not the first time that FEMEN has targeted Vatican City. On November 14, several topless women protested in St. Peter's Square against Pope Francis’ visit to the European Parliament in
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Strasbourg. Their slogan that time was “The pope is not a politician, god is not a magician.”
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READ MORE: Topless Femen deface Christian cross in Vatican (GRAPHIC VIDEO)
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FEMEN is a radical feminist protest group founded in Ukraine in 2008. The group is now based in Paris. The organization has become internationally known for its topless protests against religious institutions, sexism, homophobia, and other social, national, and international issues.
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Re: Vatican's "Manger of Darkness"
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2017, 01:57:02 PM »
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Curious article -- Intro image is from some unidentified previous year, but the text anticipates THIS year's creche (2017/11/22):
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https://www.romereports.com/en/2017/11/22/preparations-begin-for-christmas-manger-in-st-peters-square/
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Preparations begin for Christmas manger in St. Peter's Square
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In a tradition introduced by John Paul II during his papacy 35 years ago, St. Peter's Square will showcase a large Christmas manger beginning on December 7. 
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Work has already begun in the square, as craftsmen are building the structure of the enclosure. 
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These iron bars will provide support for the birth, which will occupy almost 900 square feet and measure nearly 23 feet tall. It will be composed of 20 life-size clay figures. The scene will be in the Neapolitan style of the 1970s. It's a gift from the Territorial Abbey of Montevergine, in Benevento, Italy. 
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The idea seems to excite tourists who come to the square to see St. Peter's Basilica. 
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“Putting a nativity scene here in St. Peter's Square seems completely normal to me, because it is, after all, a church. The nativity scene is a Christian representation of Christ's birth.”
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“I think it's great. The nativity scene is the symbol of Christmas.”
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The display will be unveiled on December 7, on the eve of the Feast of the Immaculate Conception. However, in accordance with Italian tradition, the baby Jesus won't be placed in His manger until December 25. 
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Apparently the anticipation for this scene was built up to promote a feeling of normal Advent enthusiasm, with everyone saying that it was going to be "completely normal," "great... the symbol of Christmas," "seems to excite tourists."
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And then came the REALITY unveiled right on time, December 7th. With a difference. The angel cherubs have a shocked, horrified expression while they look upon a disturbing scene; one angel appears to be stricken with grief, he's crying. 
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Re: Vatican's "Manger of Darkness"
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2017, 02:18:11 PM »
Do you think Michaelangelo with his nude crucifixion, multitude of nudes, and buttocks of God would approve of this?  Probably.  I mean, where do you think he learned how to carve such sculptures?  He learned to from exposed dead people.  So, the corpse in this nativity scene isn't so far off.  Rome has a long tradition of the utilizing the dead corpse.   So, if you aren't going to complain about the causes, don't complain about the symptoms.  
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I disagree.
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Rome has a long tradition of utilizing the dead corpse but not in a Nativity scene.
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Even though Michaelangelo's works were alarming to many at the time, he was not a purveyor of retrograde putrefaction of virtue.
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He studied the form of the human body so he could accurately depict it in his art, but he did not portray degeneracy among saints.
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A dead corpse is one thing and glorifying the misery of angels and naked men at the Nativity of Our Lord is really twisted.
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A dead corpse and a naked man in torment has never been part of the manger scene.
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Why would you think that's a good idea? This corpse has one arm dangling like it's become a zombie -- just your thing, eh?
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The whole objective of this year's St. Peter's Square (actually it's Bernini's Square at St. Peter's Basilica) is shock and scandal.
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Offline PG

Re: Vatican's "Manger of Darkness"
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2017, 03:27:10 PM »
neil obstat - shame on you.  I have been a member of this forum for years.  Of course I object to this manger scene.  But, I object more to the fact that catholics no longer believe in the corporal works of mercy, particularly that of burying the dead.  All of this nudity in our art is either the forbidden fruit of neglecting to bury the dead, or of immodesty.  Both are not catholic.  But, trads applaud and venerate its by product in art.  Except, when they are not currently being weaponized by us, as in our day.  It is all kiss up and kick down theology.  Turn Christ into an idol or an idolater.  Of course he is not an idolater.  But, that is not the only thing I will complain about.  Christ is neither an idol.  Christ is the messiah, true God and true man.