Of particular interest in the current crisis is the state of annulments. If the post vatican II marriage tribunals had no real authority in these matters or handed down erroneous annulments, what is the divorced-annulled-remarried Catholic to do? If the 2nd 'marriage' is in effect adultery in God's sight, ought he/she to separate from the 2nd 'spouse'? And is that Catholic 2nd 'spouse'' free to marry (once having repented of the adulterous false 'marriage'?

The primary problem in the current crisis is in not knowing where the Truth lies, per John 8:32. Where is there reliable Christ-centered authority to speak to these things?

The question you ask is really to those whom it applies, one of the greatest consequences of being deceived into thinking it is indeed possible to have such a thing as Catholic divorce. Many of these individuals in an attempt to do such a thing as contract a marriage when they clearly did contract a previous marriage, I would first say that it is very likely the person had an intuition since this is something dealing with the natural law, that what they were doing was wrong. This is why the Conciliar religion, indeed is so attractive to modern ears because it preaches an Anglican faith, call it Catholicism "Lite." You get all the benefits of going to heaven, without actually doing anything Catholic. So this is why so many stay within and defend the Concliar Church to death, because their own blasphemous interests are at stake here. How many do I know, refuse to accept that indeed this is an anti-Church because they are in an objective adulterous marriage that was contracted through the apostate annulment process.

There are several things that someone could do...

1) Live as brother and sister, help raise whatever amount of children they have both had together.

2) The person who is actually free to marry, could contract marriage. However, I would say that it would not be the smart thing to do. Depending with what spirit he approaches the issue, it can make a huge impact. In some cases you have folks who have 5-8 kids with the other person, how could you just forget about all of that?

Just look at the annual annulment rate before the Council worldwide and it gives you a real clue as to how rare an annulment really was.

Annulments:

Let us compare the numbers above with the 392 annulments granted by the Catholic Church world-wide for all the years between 1952 and 1956.

I can safely tell you, that 99.9999999% of the annulment cases since Vatican II are very likely totally null and void. That is just a fact... In fact, it was precisely this point for me that had puzzled me the most as a sedeplenist. It was precisely this that led me to the path of sedevacantism once again. I had absolutely no answer, despite how much I looked for an answer. I really mean NO ONE, in the sedeplenist world has an answer to this objection. I don't care how intelligent they are, it is impossible to answer how it is possible that the Universal Church, can permit full scale divorce. There isn't even a hint anywhere that such a thing is even theoretically possible. We know that it is anathematized by Trent.

CANON XII.-If any one saith, that matrimonial causes do not belong to ecclesiastical judges; let him be anathema.

This was also something that always deeply troubled me, as this is an anathema directed towards the SSPX. When I was at the monastery I always talked to the monks about this, and they really did not have an answer for me. Even pretty smart Dominicans I know, are left stumbled on the floor speechless when you bring this to them. First this condemns the idea, that the Church can err in these judgments as can be clearly seen if you read the chapter on the Roman Catechism going over this. Secondly, it condemns the practice to make your own parallel courts.

My heart goes out to those who sincerely thought that their situation was regularized.

"Live as brother and sister, help raise whatever amount of children they have both had together".


I am not clear on how this works in practical terms.  The woman is not your sister.  She is someone you slept with.

Why is it less of an occasion of sin to share a home with your new "wife" than it would be for a widower to move in with an ex-girlfriend to help raise her kids?

I think you confuse what I am saying, I am not suggesting they both necessarily have to live together in the same home. Maybe they could build a separate room if possible, talk to the children about it.

Yes, there is of course the proximate occasion of sin. The main point is that you already do have children, and those are an obligation that they have to keep now. There is no doubt about that, at this point it is best not to re-marry. If someone is truly sincerely repentant for the mistake, etc... I am sure they would make the right choice.

Really depends how big your home is, its not that impractical. Most modern couples when they are older aren't that intimate so if this is late enough, it would be much easier then if you are talking about two young people in their 20's. The more children you have had, the harder it is. If you have had no children, then it can really be much easier to break it off without having to worry about the repercussions to any children.

My parents aren't married and haven't been together since pretty much my birth. Yet for the past 12 years, they both live together in the same home. Of course this situation is totally different. However, there are many similarities they both have several children they both engendered. So it can work, if just one of the couples is Catholic. Doesn't work perfectly, and it can certainly be psychologically distressing knowing your parents are not sharing the marital bed, but at some point you get over it and see the objective truth. Whether or not it is worse, for them to be "married" or separated. Ultimately in my specific case, I am glad that they never got married, and in a certain way this was my actual defense from the Novus Ordo. God certainly works in mysterious ways, for I would rather have an irreligious mother, who is not a Catholic, then one who is a religious heretic. She could then exert moral influence over me, while in the other case, ever since I received the gift of faith (I was taught the faith/catechism) I saw that I could not obey my mother in those things that contravened Divine law/ecclesiastical law etc... In many ways this was part of the reason, that made me such a strong Catholic, I had to constantly defend my faith and research/find what Holy Mother Church had to say.

I could certainly empathize with those children (since I know from first hand experience what it is like), but what a great gift it would be for them to realize the objective good that it would bring for their parents to separate, because what God has put together let no man put asunder. If for example, the impediment to the marriage stops. I.e. that the other couple dies where the annulment was given, then they could be able to then licitly marry. It would of course be evil, to pray for their sudden death so you can remarry, but we have to follow Church teaching, no matter how difficult it might be. Many times, some of these people truly have overpowering feelings for one another. One particular case reminds me of Padre Pio, when he was confessing a notorious sinner (an actress I believe) who was living in adultery with a married man. He told the woman, that he was going to die soon and that if she truly loved him she has to separate from him. He told her, that he would save his soul if they separated. She followed his advice, got absolved and obeyed. Yet, both of them really wanted to be with each other, but I am sorry. What God has put together LET NO MAN put asunder, no exceptions. This is what it means to carry your cross, sometimes through our own fault we make such serious mistakes that they affect your whole life. This is what it means to be penitent, whereby you are willing to take responsibility and to the best of your ability restore as much of the initial damage done as possible.

Quote from: dogpatch

Of particular interest in the current crisis is the state of annulments. If the post vatican II marriage tribunals had no real authority in these matters or handed down erroneous annulments, what is the divorced-annulled-remarried Catholic to do? If the 2nd 'marriage' is in effect adultery in God's sight, ought he/she to separate from the 2nd 'spouse'? And is that Catholic 2nd 'spouse'' free to marry (once having repented of the adulterous false 'marriage'?

The primary problem in the current crisis is in not knowing where the Truth lies, per John 8:32. Where is there reliable Christ-centered authority to speak to these things?

First, sadly, there are probably a lot of annulments these days that actually could be valid annulments -  thanks to the multitude of invalid annulments which led to invalid re-marriages granted over the last 50 years.

In the case of invalid second marriages, spouses are bound to separate from bed and board - but it's not that cut and dry.

Living as brother and sister for a time was sometimes  advised in order to avoid the scandal of divorce, also the scandal of divorce and re-marriage. When illegitimate offspring result from this invalid marriage, things get more complicated and for that, talking to a trad priest is the only way to go.  

Adultery is when both parties are already married. Fornication is when one of the parties is single and the other is married - when that is the case, the single person is free to marry another who is also free to marry, after making a good confession.      

Glad you brought that up, for the married person it is adultery, but for the single person it is fornication.

Therefore I have to modify my previous statement with respect to Padre Pio, I meant to say fornication for the woman and adultery for the married man. I hope that this clears that up, thanks for the clarification you are right.

The problem is that now there are multiple annulments piled on top of other annulments.

For a single traditional Catholic, to avoid the possibility of scandal, unless it is demonstrably easily provable that the person who you are intending to marry has without a question of a doubt a true case of an annulment (never consummated the marriage etc...). Then it would still be licit, but as a general rule simply take out of your mind that possibility of marriage with that person. Or if you are patient enough wait until other spouse dies, lol. Feed the other guy a diet of McDonalds, ahahah. On a more serious note, things are so difficult at the moment. Any state of life you choose, is riddled with so many obstacles so do not be faint of heart and simply have faith that God will provide.

Agreed. The circuмstances would have to allow no possibility of scandal, and definitely the children should be made aware according to their age. Specifically of how mom and dad are not really married, etc...

Its a serious matter, that requires great moral guidance from a good priest. This would be true whether it is a priest of the SSPX or a sedevacantist priest.