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Author Topic: Validity or Invalidity of Confession over the Phone  (Read 9317 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Validity or Invalidity of Confession over the Phone
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2023, 03:01:48 PM »
Quote from: Emile on November 04, 2023, 02:16:40 PM
It's another matter that the Church will have to settle, but as far as opinions...

I agree that a phone confession is possibly valid, but that there is still doubt involved.

Agreed that there's doubt.  If any significant number of theologians hold that it's doubtful, then we must consider it doubtful.  I lean toward them being valid because I haven't yet found a clear-cut principle to definitively rule it out.

So, one practical application of this is that in danger of death, where someone has no other recourse, one might attempt to call a priest and ask him to conditionally absolve over the phone.  One may have recourse to doubtful Sacraments in danger of death.

Obviously this should not become some kind of ordinary way to confess and receive absolution, but it may be of use in extreme cases.  I'm also thinking along the lines of a possible new lockdown some day where the churches are shut down even harder than they were last time with COVID.
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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Validity or Invalidity of Confession over the Phone
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2023, 11:33:34 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on November 04, 2023, 03:01:48 PM
Agreed that there's doubt.  If any significant number of theologians hold that it's doubtful, then we must consider it doubtful.  I lean toward them being valid because I haven't yet found a clear-cut principle to definitively rule it out.

So, one practical application of this is that in danger of death, where someone has no other recourse, one might attempt to call a priest and ask him to conditionally absolve over the phone.  One may have recourse to doubtful Sacraments in danger of death.

Obviously this should not become some kind of ordinary way to confess and receive absolution, but it may be of use in extreme cases.  I'm also thinking along the lines of a possible new lockdown some day where the churches are shut down even harder than they were last time with COVID.


Sorry Lad that I didn’t respond sooner, I was away. Below is a case from the Casuist, I believe it answers your question. Especially see what I highlighted in red.
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Offline SimpleMan

Re: Validity or Invalidity of Confession over the Phone
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2023, 12:10:50 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on November 04, 2023, 03:01:48 PM
Agreed that there's doubt.  If any significant number of theologians hold that it's doubtful, then we must consider it doubtful.  I lean toward them being valid because I haven't yet found a clear-cut principle to definitively rule it out.

So, one practical application of this is that in danger of death, where someone has no other recourse, one might attempt to call a priest and ask him to conditionally absolve over the phone.  One may have recourse to doubtful Sacraments in danger of death.

Obviously this should not become some kind of ordinary way to confess and receive absolution, but it may be of use in extreme cases.  I'm also thinking along the lines of a possible new lockdown some day where the churches are shut down even harder than they were last time with COVID.

Agreed.  If someone is dying, and the only way to administer absolution is over the phone, better that, than nothing at all.  The worst thing that can happen, is that it would be invalid.  Epikeia would certainly kick in here.
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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Validity or Invalidity of Confession over the Phone
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2023, 12:23:24 PM »
Quote from: SimpleMan on November 05, 2023, 12:10:50 PM
Agreed.  If someone is dying, and the only way to administer absolution is over the phone, better that, than nothing at all.  The worst thing that can happen, is that it would be invalid.  Epikeia would certainly kick in here.

The priest could also spend time on instructing/helping the penitent make an act of perfect contrition.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Validity or Invalidity of Confession over the Phone
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2023, 03:15:20 PM »
Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on November 05, 2023, 12:23:24 PM
The priest could also spend time on instructing/helping the penitent make an act of perfect contrition.

Yeah, both could be done, instruction on perfect contrition and a conditional absolution if there's a danger of death scenario.

In the practical order, it must be considered doubtful, until the Church rules on it, since most theologians hold it to be doubtful.  But I've personally (private opinion) come to the conclusion that it would be valid.  I can see no reason why it would not be ... given all the cases (casuistry) where it would be valid that one by one rule out the different alleged requirements set forth.
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