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Author Topic: Validity of orders  (Read 3537 times)

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Offline Vincent

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Validity of orders
« on: April 22, 2017, 02:12:29 PM »
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    • Hello.  I am new to this website and this is my first post.  Currently, I am in Ohio and in need to verifying validity of orders for 2 priests.
    First, is Father James Thielen who offers Holy Mass in Urbana and Columbus, OH.  Second, Father Gabriel Ward FBA from Queen of Angels Convent Wooster, OH ordained by Bishop Sebastian (California?)  If someone has some information, I would be very grateful.

    A Blessed Easter Saturday!
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #1 on: April 22, 2017, 04:13:14 PM »
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    • If I am not mistaken, Bishop Sebastian in California is of the Duarte line, thus, his orders are, at best, doubtful.  Bishop Carlos Duarte Costa was excommunicated in the 1940s when he became schismatic and founded an independent Church.  Priests and bishops of his line are not Catholic.  I would stay far away from these two priests.

    There are a number of priests in Ohio that are absolutely valid.  Check the following website for priests I would recommend (though I do not recommend the SSPV): Luxvera.org

    Some of the priests listed on this website have chapels very near these men.
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    Offline Vincent

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #2 on: April 22, 2017, 05:43:16 PM »
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    • Thank you for the response for it was very helpful.
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #3 on: April 22, 2017, 06:04:01 PM »
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    • Yes, Fr. James Thielen, was validly ordained by Bishop Pivarunus.  If you go to him, say that Jim and Nancy Vogel from Peoria, AZ referred you to him.  
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #4 on: April 22, 2017, 06:10:27 PM »
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    • I withdraw my caution about Fr. Thielen.  I had assumed both men were ordained by the Duarte-line bishop but on re-reading your initial post, I see that you only said the second man was ordained by him.  Songbird is absolutely correct that a priest ordained by Bishop Pivarunas is a true Catholic priest and I wouldn't hesitate assisting a Mass with him.

    If his chapel is not listed on the Luxvera website, I encourage you to send in the chapel's information to Luxvera so that they can include him in their directory.
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    Offline BumphreyHogart

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #5 on: April 22, 2017, 06:17:07 PM »
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    • Fr. Thielen is effectively a CMRI priest, though he may be more "independent" now, but still CMRI-friendly. I personally have good memories of him before he was ordained. I knew him pretty well.

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    "there can be no holiness where there is disagreement with the pope" - Pope St. Pius X

    Today, only Catholics holding the sedevacantist position are free from the anguish entailed by this truth.

    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #6 on: April 22, 2017, 07:00:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: LuxVera.org ("Updated  APRIL  2017")
    DIRECTORY of Mass Locations in the United States
    [....]
    The purpose of this Directory is to list Holy Mass locations that are served by true, valid, uncompromising Catholic priests and bishops who reject the heresies of Vatican II and the heretics who have implemented them, including the alleged popes after Pope Pius XII.

    It is our sincere hope that all the priests included in this directory have unimpeachable validity of ordination as well as orthodoxy of doctrine, ecclesiological expertise, and unblemished character.  However, lacking papal authority in the Church today, it is impossible to verify these.

    In other words, LuxVera.org promotes dogmatic sedevacantism[†]

    I have first-hand experience with the only independent traditional Catholic church in Orange County (Florida), whose main Web page, which does not elaborate on the point, describes itself briefly as "[r]ecognizing the sovereignity of Pope Francis"; that sufficed for LuxVera.org to disqualify it from their Web-page listing [×].  Even though as a practical matter, the pastor seems to leave evaluation of Mr. Bergoglio to the consciences of individual de facto parishoners, but it seems that the combination is too much compromising for LuxVera.org. 

    So as readers can readily imagine, the FSSPX priory up at the northern end of Seminole County (Florida) is also absent from the LuxVera.org listing, and was so even back when the FSSPX proConciliar "accordista" faction, and its prospects for usurping control of the "Society", were still an issue of genuine debate.

    And LuxVera.org admits to having not verified, but merely having "sincere hope", that "all the priests included" meet its stated individual standards.

    -------
    Note †: Arguing or even expressing the dogmatic form of sedevacantism is a sufficient disqualification for CathInfo membership, as a matter of policy set for the site by owner-admin Matthew.

    Note ×: As docuмented by an e-mail reply from LuxVera.org, in response to a direct question about nonlisting, a few years ago, of which I have a copy.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #7 on: April 22, 2017, 07:09:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: AlligatorDicax on April 22, 2017, 07:00:46 PM
    In other words, LuxVera.org promotes dogmatic sedevacantism
    You dogmatic anti-sedevacantists crack me up.  
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #8 on: April 22, 2017, 10:24:33 PM »
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    • Be sure to check if Fr. Thielen is still serving Urbana.  If you need his phone # I do have  it.
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    Offline Vincent

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #9 on: April 23, 2017, 05:54:16 PM »
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    • Yes, I would like Father Thielen's phone number.  He is currently listed on the Traditio.com website as being at Saint Margaret Mary Chapel in Urbana, OH and Saint Anthony Mission in Columbus, OH.  The listing has no phone number, and he is not listed in the Lux Vera USA Directory; however, Father Bernard Hall is listed as being at Saint Margaret Mary Chapel in Urbana, OH.  This is confusing and I am not sure if one or both of these sources need to be updated.
      I appreciate the responses I have received from my quest for Holy Mass options.  Thank you.
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    Offline 1st Mansion Tenant

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #10 on: April 23, 2017, 09:09:18 PM »
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    • What exactly is the proper etiquette involved in asking a priest about his validity? I'm pretty sure all practicing priests everywhere believe they are 'valid'.  Do they get huffy when approached by faithful asking for their lineage and details?  :confused:
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    Offline Lighthouse

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #11 on: April 23, 2017, 11:00:04 PM »
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    • Father Thielen went out of his way to provide The Last Rites to my aged father. He was terrific, but I have no knowledge of any questions about his validity.
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #12 on: April 23, 2017, 11:06:58 PM »
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    • Father James Thielen, P. O. Box 108, Mechanicsburg, OH 43044-0108  at 719-659-0637

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    Offline joe17

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    Re: Validity of orders
    « Reply #13 on: April 27, 2017, 09:15:06 PM »
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    • Just an FYI.  Fr Thielen was ordained by Bishop Carmona along with 2 other priests down in Mexico several months before Bishop Pivarunas was consecrated.
      He is, indeed, a very fine priest I am glad to know and will whatever he can to help direct a soul to Heaven.


    Joe
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