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Author Topic: Validity Eastern Catholic Orders  (Read 5882 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Validity Eastern Catholic Orders
« Reply #40 on: May 06, 2025, 08:08:50 PM »
Quote from: 2Vermont on May 06, 2025, 01:48:44 PM
I may have missed it, but have you mentioned the issue of "consecrated" hosts?  Is there a possibility that the SSPX distributes hosts consecrated by the NO?

I've never heard a case of that ... though I have heard of hosts consecrated by priests who had not been conditionally ordained.  So it's quite possible in SSPX to show up at a chapel and find an SSPX-ordained priest there for Mass, but then go to Holy Communion without realizing that the Blessed Sacrament in the coborium within the tabernacle from which he distributes Holy Communion was in fact consecrated the previous week by a priest who had come in that weekend but had not been conditionally ordained after coming over from NO.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Validity Eastern Catholic Orders
« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2025, 08:11:29 PM »
Quote from: WorldsAway on May 06, 2025, 01:39:42 PM
Thanks for the explanations, on both counts. That makes a lot of sense. From a different angle, another reason the SSPX using NO churches bothers me is that it gives the NO bishops a semblance of holding lawful authority in the Catholic Church, and how they are charitable, merciful in deigning to allow a "canonically irregular" group to celebrate the true Mass in their churches. Now obviously a Catholic bishop does have the right to do that, and I guess the sspx has always held those bishops to still have authority..but it just another one of those things that I think can cause trad faithful to become complacent, and believe the situation isn't as bad as it really is

Well, that's what they believe, though, that the NO bishops do have authority.  So, for instance, St. Vincent Ferrer thought that one of the Antipopes was the actual pope and (presumably) put his name into the Canon and then the name of the bishops who was under that false pope, etc.  He did so because he thought they had authority, but was wrong.  That too I put in the same category, that of material error but with the correct formal intention. 
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Offline SimpleMan

Re: Validity Eastern Catholic Orders
« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2025, 08:56:34 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 06, 2025, 11:05:54 AM
But the same dispensation could be granted even to not having an Altar Stone, again, for the good of souls, such as where you might secretly have Mass in some cσncєnтrαтισn cαмρ on a table with obviously no altar stone available.  In other words, the rule is that it should be in a sacred space consecrated for the Mass ... but if there's some urgent pastoral necessity, elsewhere, and then if it's elsewhere then the priest should use an altar stone, if possible, but that too can be dispensed with for some urgent pastoral necessity.  It's not like one is an absolute requirement the other not.  Both are already exceptions to the rule.

I have heard of priests (St Maximilian Kolbe, and I want to say, Orthodox priests as well) offering Mass in prison camps using their hand as an "altar".

Incidentally, are there any traditionalist Catholics who deny that Kolbe's martyrdom story, and the circuмstances surrounding it (being held at Auschwitz), happened as the mainstream accounts say it did?
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Offline HeidtXtreme

Re: Validity Eastern Catholic Orders
« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2025, 09:07:25 PM »
Quote from: SimpleMan on May 06, 2025, 08:56:34 PM
Incidentally, are there any traditionalist Catholics who deny that Kolbe's martyrdom story, and the circuмstances surrounding it (being held at Auschwitz), happened as the mainstream accounts say it did?
I am honestly unsure what to think about Maximillian Kolbe.
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Offline Giovanni Berto

Re: Validity Eastern Catholic Orders
« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2025, 09:56:59 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 06, 2025, 08:08:50 PM
I've never heard a case of that ... though I have heard of hosts consecrated by priests who had not been conditionally ordained.  So it's quite possible in SSPX to show up at a chapel and find an SSPX-ordained priest there for Mass, but then go to Holy Communion without realizing that the Blessed Sacrament in the coborium within the tabernacle from which he distributes Holy Communion was in fact consecrated the previous week by a priest who had come in that weekend but had not been conditionally ordained after coming over from NO.

It happens all the time. There is a SSPX chapel that I have visited in the past where five priests live, and one of them is a non conditionally ordained Novus Ordo priest. There are four masses on Sunday. Result: no communion for me, since it is impossible to know which are the hosts that he (or did not) consecrate. I don't visit this place anymore, sadly.
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