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Poll

Are the V2 Popes formal or material heretics

Formal Heretics
4 (36.4%)
Material Heretics
4 (36.4%)
I don't know
1 (9.1%)
I think he is most likely a formal heretic and would lose the office if he was but I am not 100%
1 (9.1%)
Other(specify in the comments)
1 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 10

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Author Topic: V2 Popes and Material Heresy  (Read 581 times)

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Offline forlorn

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Re: V2 Popes and Material Heresy
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2020, 10:46:00 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on October 23, 2020, 10:36:25 AM
    Not so because these popes, (perhaps they're the first popes who) actually believe that they are infallible in whatever they say. If they are all formal heretics, then the teaching that popes are always infallibly safe to follow is error.
    Pope John XXIII: "I am only infallible if I speak infallibly but I shall never do that, so I am not infallible."

    This idea that everyone who disagrees with you thinks the pope is always infallible is just ridiculous and patently false.
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    Offline Sin of Adam

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    Re: V2 Popes and Material Heresy
    « Reply #16 on: October 23, 2020, 10:49:50 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on October 23, 2020, 10:46:00 AM
    Pope John XXIII: "I am only infallible if I speak infallibly but I shall never do that, so I am not infallible."

    This idea that everyone who disagrees with you thinks the pope is always infallible is just ridiculous and patently false.
    Did he teach ex-cathedra that he is only infallible when speaking infallibly; never spoke infallibly and therefore is infallibly fallible in all he fallibly promulgated?
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    Lumen ad revelationem gentium et gloriam plebis tuae Israel.

    Offline Your Friend Colin

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    Re: V2 Popes and Material Heresy
    « Reply #17 on: October 23, 2020, 01:09:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Sin of Adam on October 23, 2020, 10:49:50 AM
    Did he teach ex-cathedra that he is only infallible when speaking infallibly; never spoke infallibly and therefore is infallibly fallible in all he fallibly promulgated?
    :laugh2: :fryingpan:
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    Offline Your Friend Colin

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    Re: V2 Popes and Material Heresy
    « Reply #18 on: October 23, 2020, 01:10:00 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on October 23, 2020, 10:36:25 AM
    Not so because these popes, (perhaps they're the first popes who) actually believe that they are infallible in whatever they say. If they are all formal heretics, then the teaching that popes are always infallibly safe to follow is error.
    Where do you come up with these ludicrous ideas?
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    Offline songbird

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    Re: V2 Popes and Material Heresy
    « Reply #19 on: October 23, 2020, 04:23:51 PM »
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    • Formal heretic.  Rejects the Mass for All Time.  All New Order clergy do just this.  That is the most outward, public heresy of All Times!  Our Lord Said, you will know them by their fruits.   I don't understand why the outward New order mess, that brings no life, no sacraments should not be enough to convince anyone of these men being heretics. Formal. The Mass for All time IS the Deposits of Faith.  They reject the Dogmas in the Deposit of Faith.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: V2 Popes and Material Heresy
    « Reply #20 on: October 24, 2020, 08:38:12 AM »
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    • Quote from: Sin of Adam on October 23, 2020, 10:43:50 AM
    Or they are anti-Popes and heretics who have lost/did not have Papal authority in the first place.
    That's a novel idea.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: V2 Popes and Material Heresy
    « Reply #21 on: October 24, 2020, 08:38:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Your Friend Colin on October 23, 2020, 01:10:00 PM
    Where do you come up with these ludicrous ideas?
    From sedes.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse
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