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Author Topic: Confession emergency  (Read 9234 times)

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Offline HeidtXtreme

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Confession emergency
« on: March 16, 2025, 09:13:10 PM »
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    • Is it true according to the Traditional teaching of the Catholic Church that one can go to any excommunicated or schismatic priest for Confession in case of emergency of death? For example, an Orthodox priest? I hear the Vatican II church say this sometimes but I’m wondering if this is true according to Traditional Church teaching. Does anybody have any Catholic sources on this?
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    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #1 on: March 16, 2025, 09:18:06 PM »
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    • Yes, as far as I know. Is it possible for it to be invalid, I think, but it's worth the risk. Even if they were a priest, but are no longer (if that's a thing, maybe I'm thinking of excommunication). I don't have any sources for you, just saying what I remember being taught.

    Of course it is good to learn to make a perfect act of contrition, and to make a habit of doing that frequently.
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    Offline Angelus

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #2 on: March 16, 2025, 09:23:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: HeidtXtreme on March 16, 2025, 09:13:10 PM
    Is it true according to the Traditional teaching of the Catholic Church that one can go to any excommunicated or schismatic priest for Confession in case of emergency of death? For example, an Orthodox priest? I hear the Vatican II church say this sometimes but I’m wondering if this is true according to Traditional Church teaching. Does anybody have any Catholic sources on this?

    1917 Canon Law
    https://cdn.restorethe54.com/media/pdf/1917-code-of-canon-law-english.pdf


    Canon 2261 (1983 CIC 1331, 1335) Cross-Refs.: 1917 CIC 2264,
    2275, 2284

    § 1. One excommunicated is prohibited from confecting and administering licitly the Sacraments
    and Sacramentals, except for the exceptions that follow.

    § 2. The faithful, with due regard for the prescription of § 3, can for any just cause seek the
    Sacraments and Sacramentals from one excommunicated, especially if other ministers are lacking,
    and then the one who is excommunicate and approached can administer these and is under no
    obligation of inquiring the reasons from the one requesting.

    § 3. But from a banned excommunicate and from others excommunicated after a condemnatory
    or declaratory sentence has come, only the faithful in danger of death can ask for sacramental
    absolution according to the norm of Canons 882 and 2252 and even, if other ministers are lacking,
    other Sacraments and Sacramentals.


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    Offline Seraphina

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #3 on: March 16, 2025, 09:25:13 PM »
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    • Yes, in case of imminent danger of death, it is permitted. One should have perfect contrition just in case. 
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    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #4 on: March 16, 2025, 09:45:08 PM »
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    • Once a priest always a priest.  Ordination is the third sacrament that leaves an indelible mark on the soul.
    In case of death...he's still a priest.
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    Offline Univocity

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #5 on: March 17, 2025, 12:23:18 AM »
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    • Lol. An Orthodox priest will never hear the confession of a roman catholic.  The Orthodox do not recognize roman catholics as even being baptized.  But even if a baptized Orthodox person had apostatized and became roman catholic, he couldn't simply confess to an Orthodox priest.  He would need to recant his heresies, revert to Orthodoxy and be chrismated as well.  This is similar to the novus ordo law permitting their adherents to receive the Eucharist from Orthodox priests.  It is silly because unlike the latins, Orthodoxy does not permit these ecuмenical gestures.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #6 on: March 17, 2025, 05:26:07 AM »
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    • Council of Trent:
    CHAPTER VII.
    On the Reservation of Cases.
    .... But it is consonant to the divine authority, that this reservation of cases have effect, not merely in external polity, but also in God's sight. Nevertheless, for fear lest any may perish on this account, it has  always been very piously observed in the said Church of God, that there be no  reservation at the point of death, and that therefore all priests may absolve all  penitents whatsoever from every kind of sins and censures whatever: and as, save at  that point of death, priests have no power in reserved cases, let this alone be their endeavour, to persuade penitents to repair to superior and lawful judges for the benefit
    of absolution.
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #7 on: March 17, 2025, 06:27:33 AM »
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    • In cases where a Catholic is physically or morally impeded from receiving sacramental absolution from a Catholic priest in good standing with faculties, such Catholic may seek the sacrament from a suspended or excommunicated priest, or even priests of those schismatic churches with valid Holy Orders (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Union of Scranton, some Old Catholic). In such cases the Church supplies what is necessary to validate the sacrament because of the emergency situation (ecclesia supplet). In danger of death, one may even approach a priest whose ordination is doubtfully valid (Novus Ordo, Brasilian Apostolic, some Anglo-Catholics, some sects of the Independent Sacramental Movement*)

    *Independent Sacramental Movement (ISM) refers to a diverse body of small ecclesial groups who claim apostolicity through various irregular Old Catholic, Syrian, and Orthodox origins. The ISM covers a very broad spectrum from groups that appear virtually trad Catholic all the way to LGBTXYZ, ancient-alien, neo-Druid, Kabbalistic mystery cults.
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    Online SimpleMan

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #8 on: March 18, 2025, 06:30:43 PM »
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    • Quote from: ElwinRansom1970 on March 17, 2025, 06:27:33 AM
    In cases where a Catholic is physically or morally impeded from receiving sacramental absolution from a Catholic priest in good standing with faculties, such Catholic may seek the sacrament from a suspended or excommunicated priest, or even priests of those schismatic churches with valid Holy Orders (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Union of Scranton, some Old Catholic). In such cases the Church supplies what is necessary to validate the sacrament because of the emergency situation (ecclesia supplet). In danger of death, one may even approach a priest whose ordination is doubtfully valid (Novus Ordo, Brasilian Apostolic, some Anglo-Catholics, some sects of the Independent Sacramental Movement*)

    *Independent Sacramental Movement (ISM) refers to a diverse body of small ecclesial groups who claim apostolicity through various irregular Old Catholic, Syrian, and Orthodox origins. The ISM covers a very broad spectrum from groups that appear virtually trad Catholic all the way to LGBTXYZ, ancient-alien, neo-Druid, Kabbalistic mystery cults.

    What does "morally impeded" mean in this context?  Could you provide an example?
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #9 on: March 19, 2025, 01:00:47 AM »
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    • Quote from: SimpleMan on March 18, 2025, 06:30:43 PM
    What does "morally impeded" mean in this context?  Could you provide an example?
    "Morally impeded" means that one has a scruple in approaching available clergy with faculties for a sacrament. For example, although a priest may have faculties, one might doubt the validity of his ordination and, therefore, the validity of the sacrament to be administered. Another example, one may know that a priest with faculties has a tendency to omit giving a penance or alters the essential form of absolution. These are cases where one is morally impeded from approaching that minister of the sacrament and the law recognises the right to approach a minister lacking faculties with the Church supplying in that instance the necessary condition to validate the sacrament in the absence of faculties (supplied jurisdiction).
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    Offline HeidtXtreme

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #10 on: March 24, 2025, 10:05:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: ElwinRansom1970 on March 17, 2025, 06:27:33 AM
    In cases where a Catholic is physically or morally impeded from receiving sacramental absolution from a Catholic priest in good standing with faculties, such Catholic may seek the sacrament from a suspended or excommunicated priest, or even priests of those schismatic churches with valid Holy Orders (Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Union of Scranton, some Old Catholic). In such cases the Church supplies what is necessary to validate the sacrament because of the emergency situation (ecclesia supplet). In danger of death, one may even approach a priest whose ordination is doubtfully valid (Novus Ordo, Brasilian Apostolic, some Anglo-Catholics, some sects of the Independent Sacramental Movement*)

    *Independent Sacramental Movement (ISM) refers to a diverse body of small ecclesial groups who claim apostolicity through various irregular Old Catholic, Syrian, and Orthodox origins. The ISM covers a very broad spectrum from groups that appear virtually trad Catholic all the way to LGBTXYZ, ancient-alien, neo-Druid, Kabbalistic mystery cults.
    Not that I need to worry about going to them for Confession if I’m drying, but are the Palmarians valid? 
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    Offline Philip

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #11 on: March 25, 2025, 06:17:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: HeidtXtreme on March 24, 2025, 10:05:23 AM
    Not that I need to worry about going to them for Confession if I’m drying, but are the Palmarians valid?
    I understand they have made extensive changes to the rite of Mass and to ordination rites.  There would be significant doubt over validity now IMHO.
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    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: Confession emergency
    « Reply #12 on: March 25, 2025, 10:05:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: Philip on March 25, 2025, 06:17:48 AM
    I understand they have made extensive changes to the rite of Mass and to ordination rites.  There would be significant doubt over validity now IMHO.
    Agreed. Their changes to the text of Mass are not pertinent here. The changes to the rite of ordination is!
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