Author Topic: Universal acceptance of a Pope (Read 40143 times)

Clemens Maria · « **Reply #100 on:** July 17, 2015, 10:46:50 AM »

Fr. Cekada has specifically addressed many of the concerns of those who refuse to consider the sedevacantist position based on the Church's visibility and indefectibility.

http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php/Where-was-the-latest-Fr-Cekada-video-filmed

You don't have to watch the whole thing (43+ minutes). The section where he covers these concerns begins at the 35 minute mark ("Pope By Default"). He covers universal acceptance starting at about 37:18 mark.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #101 on:** July 17, 2015, 10:57:30 AM »

Quote from: Clemens Maria

Fr. Cekada has specifically addressed many of the concerns of those who refuse to consider the sedevacantist position based on the Church's visibility and indefectibility.

http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php/Where-was-the-latest-Fr-Cekada-video-filmed

You don't have to watch the whole thing (43+ minutes). The section where he covers these concerns begins at the 35 minute mark ("Pope By Default"). He covers universal acceptance starting at about 37:18 mark.

Yes, his argument can be summed up as, "Well, sedevacantists reject these popes. And what are we, chopped liver?" I guess it becomes a question of how one defines "universal".

There are much better arguments than this.

Clemens Maria · « **Reply #102 on:** July 17, 2015, 11:02:35 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Clemens Maria
Fr. Cekada has specifically addressed many of the concerns of those who refuse to consider the sedevacantist position based on the Church's visibility and indefectibility.

http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php/Where-was-the-latest-Fr-Cekada-video-filmed

You don't have to watch the whole thing (43+ minutes). The section where he covers these concerns begins at the 35 minute mark ("Pope By Default"). He covers universal acceptance starting at about 37:18 mark.

Yes, his argument can be summed up as, "Well, sedevacantists reject these popes. And what are we, chopped liver?" I guess it becomes a question of how one defines "universal".

There are much better arguments than this.

Well, I think the other thing to keep in mind is that he rejects the idea that heretics can represent the universal Church. So the fact that he is universally accepted by heretics is of no consequence.

Clemens Maria · « **Reply #103 on:** July 17, 2015, 11:11:29 AM »

I wish Fr. Cekada had spent a little more time on this topic. I think Nishant would say, yes, for all intents and purposes priests and laity as well as all who do not possess ordinary jurisdiction whether SV or not are chopped liver when it comes to the concept of universal acceptance. Only the ordinaries matter. But you would be hard pressed to find an ordinary that doesn't publicly preach one heresy or another.

Arvinger · « **Reply #104 on:** July 17, 2015, 12:06:32 PM »

Quote from: Clemens Maria

Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Clemens Maria
Fr. Cekada has specifically addressed many of the concerns of those who refuse to consider the sedevacantist position based on the Church's visibility and indefectibility.

http://www.cathinfo.com/index.php/Where-was-the-latest-Fr-Cekada-video-filmed

You don't have to watch the whole thing (43+ minutes). The section where he covers these concerns begins at the 35 minute mark ("Pope By Default"). He covers universal acceptance starting at about 37:18 mark.

Yes, his argument can be summed up as, "Well, sedevacantists reject these popes. And what are we, chopped liver?" I guess it becomes a question of how one defines "universal".

There are much better arguments than this.

Well, I think the other thing to keep in mind is that he rejects the idea that heretics can represent the universal Church. So the fact that he is universally accepted by heretics is of no consequence.

I am in a sede-doubtist camp and I do see serious problems with sedevacantism, especially a dogmatic one, but I find the argument about universal acceptance of the Vatican II Popes as evidence for their validity really weak. Yes, majority of people baptized in the Catholic Church recognize Francis as Pope, but only about 20% of baptized Catholics actually practice their faith. Out of these 20% great many reject Church's teaching on different subjects, most notoriously the teaching on sɛҳuąƖ morality, or have Protestantized view of the Church and the Mass (no wonder we see massive defections to Protestantism, especially in South America). So in reality we are left with few % of Catholics who actually keep their faith and can be representative for the Church in regard to universal acceptance of the Pope. And within such a small percentage the sedevacantists and followers of the SSPX (often you can hear that there are many crypto-sedevacantists in the SSPX chapels, and even - as Bishop Sanborn claims - among the priests) suddenly become a serious number which puts into doubt the universal acceptance of V2 Popes. Lets not forget that +Lefebvre himself was a sede-doubtist and in his day there were many sedevacantists even in the SSPX and its seminaries whom the Archbishop had to remove.