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Author Topic: Universal acceptance of a Pope  (Read 40111 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Universal acceptance of a Pope
« Reply #120 on: July 23, 2015, 11:27:56 AM »
There's an additional component, Nishant, which adds a little more weight to V2 than a Papal Encyclical.  It's that V2 was taught by all the bishops of the world in union with the pope, therefore making it part of the OUM.

While you claim that the Church could not defect by having all the bishops of the world recognize as legitimate an illegitimate pope, what's the difference between that and if all the bishops of the world accept and teach DOCTRINAL ERRORS?  Both these are based on the SAME principle, but in one case you accept it while in the other you do not ... selectively, based on your R&R brainwashing.

Offline Ladislaus

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Universal acceptance of a Pope
« Reply #121 on: July 23, 2015, 11:34:39 AM »
Let me reiterate, Nishant.  If I were to come around to your position on universal acceptance, I would cease to be a Traditional Catholic, abjure my schism, and submit to the teaching of Vatican II with religious submission, trying with my last dying breath to apply the hermeneutic of continuity to its teaching.


Universal acceptance of a Pope
« Reply #122 on: July 23, 2015, 02:06:05 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
Let me reiterate, Nishant.  If I were to come around to your position on universal acceptance, I would cease to be a Traditional Catholic, abjure my schism, and submit to the teaching of Vatican II with religious submission, trying with my last dying breath to apply the hermeneutic of continuity to its teaching.


Do you admit it to be a teaching of the Church that you are bound to believe the teachings of her theologians?

Offline Ladislaus

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Universal acceptance of a Pope
« Reply #123 on: July 23, 2015, 02:21:18 PM »
Quote from: Gregory I
Quote from: Ladislaus
Let me reiterate, Nishant.  If I were to come around to your position on universal acceptance, I would cease to be a Traditional Catholic, abjure my schism, and submit to the teaching of Vatican II with religious submission, trying with my last dying breath to apply the hermeneutic of continuity to its teaching.


Do you admit it to be a teaching of the Church that you are bound to believe the teachings of her theologians?


No.  Theologians do not exercise any kind of Magisterium.  Father Cekada made that one up.  Typically theologians can be seen as passively reflecting the faith of the Church but not as an active part of the Magisterium.

Universal acceptance of a Pope
« Reply #124 on: July 23, 2015, 02:42:49 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus
Quote from: Gregory I
Quote from: Ladislaus
Let me reiterate, Nishant.  If I were to come around to your position on universal acceptance, I would cease to be a Traditional Catholic, abjure my schism, and submit to the teaching of Vatican II with religious submission, trying with my last dying breath to apply the hermeneutic of continuity to its teaching.


Do you admit it to be a teaching of the Church that you are bound to believe the teachings of her theologians?


No.  Theologians do not exercise any kind of Magisterium.  Father Cekada made that one up.  Typically theologians can be seen as passively reflecting the faith of the Church but not as an active part of the Magisterium.


You may disagree with him, but he certainly didn'take it up. It is in Dezinger 1683 and 1684:

"1683 While, in truth, We laud these men with due praise because they professed the truth which necessarily arises from their obligation to the Catholic faith, We wish to persuade Ourselves that they did not wish to confine the obligation, by which Catholic teachers and writers are absolutely bound, only to those decrees which are set forth by the infallible judgment of the Church as dogmas of faith to be believed by all [see n. 1722]. And We persuade Ourselves, also, that they did not wish to declare that that perfect adhesion to revealed truths, which they recognized as absolutely necessary to attain true progress in the sciences and to refute errors, could be obtained if faith and obedience were given only to the dogmas expressly defined by the Church. For, even if it were a matter concerning that subjection which is to be manifested by an act o f divine faith, nevertheless, it would not have to be limited to those matters which have been defined by express decrees of the ecuмenical Councils, or of the Roman Pontiffs and of this See, but would have to be extended also to those matters which are handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching power of the whole Church spread throughout the world, and therefore, by universal and common consent are held by Catholic theologians to belong to faith.

1684 But, since it is a matter of that subjection by which in conscience all those Catholics are bound who work in the speculative sciences, in order that they may bring new advantages to the Church by their writings, on that account, then, the men of that same convention should recognize that it is not sufficient for learned Catholics to accept and revere the aforesaid dogmas of the Church, but that it is also necessary to subject themselves to the decisions pertaining to doctrine which are issued by the Pontifical Congregations, and also to those forms of doctrine which are held by the common and constant consent of Catholics as theological truths and conclusions, so certain that opinions opposed to these same forms of doctrine, although they cannot be called heretical, nevertheless deserve some theological censure."