Author Topic: Unity in the Church  (Read 624 times)

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Offline Thorn

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Unity in the Church
« on: October 18, 2011, 12:36:02 PM »
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  • I wonder how many Catholics & especially those on this Forum, know that during the Mass there are two distinct places where we pray for unity in the Church.
     
    At the beginning of the Canon, right after Holy, Holy, Holy, we ask in the first place for unity; then after the Consecration and the Lord's Prayer we ask again just before preparing for Communion for unity.  In my mind, perfect placement for these prayers.  Also, we pray at least three times to Christ 'who lives with God the Father in the unity of the Holy Spirit,...'

    How many people just gloss over these words without really praying them?  I honestly believe that most people at Mass are just reading words & not letting them soak in & really praying, if they're even following along at all.  Could this be the reason why God is not giving us unity?  We're not asking for it!  We're just glossing over the words with absolutely no heart.

    We have the deposit of faith in the Creed.  Sedevacantism, Fatima, and other visions are all personal opinions and should have no bearing where we go to Mass.  So we now have the spectacle of Catholics fighting Catholics instead of the enemy.  The SSPX is in one corner, the CMRI in another, with the Indults in yet another and on and on it goes.  Many people have had their faith sorely tried and some have even lost the faith because of all this nonsense.  

    We all need to pray those prayers of unity with all our heart and soul and maybe then God will hear and answer our prayers.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline s2srea

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    Unity in the Church
    « Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 12:46:15 PM »
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  • Quote from: Thorn
    How many people just gloss over these words without really praying them?  I honestly believe that most people at Mass are just reading words & not letting them soak in & really praying, if they're even following along at all.  Could this be the reason why God is not giving us unity?  We're not asking for it!  We're just glossing over the words with absolutely no heart.


    I'm sure your right: many, if not most, Traditional Catholics possibly glance through the words of our missal. But how much fault can we place on them? (Edit: more correctly, is it for us to decide? Don't get me wrong, I've had the same thoughts, just thinking out loud...)I've said before, and I stand by it, developing an interior life, which includes learning to focus and pray the Tridentine Mass, is a process. Learning isn't about 'poof'; its something which takes time and effort.

    The cultivation of the interior life is, I believe, the greatest tool to ensure one who is at mass, isn't just 'at mass', but a part of the Sacrifice and is actively offering, in union with the priest, the un-bloody sacrifice at Mt. Calvary.

    I think the focus is too narrow, however, for why Our Lord has left us in this state of isolation. The problem is too great and too complex for anyone to truly comprehend completely here on Earth. All we can do is to keep the fight in this life as best we can, give thanks to Almighty God for giving us the Grace to fully understand and comprehend where His Church truly lies, and do penance for those around us.


    Offline Stephen Francis

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    Unity in the Church
    « Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 01:34:11 PM »
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  • I cannot be so careless as to say that NONE of these issues (sede, indult, etc) matter, but I WILL most definitely agree that the solution to the problems we face is NOT figuring out doctrines.

    Let me repeat that: The solution we seek is NOT figuring out doctrines.

    The ONLY, ONLY, ONLY, ONLY (I can't say it enough) way for the Church to regain Her rightful place in the order of things is for Her children to become the saints we are called and commanded to be.

    There is NOTHING in world more powerful than Our Lord Jesus Christ and His Church. Nothing.

    There are no weapons that can fell the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, there are no soldiers who can be more valiant than the foot-soldiers of Our Lady, who war against the enemy of souls with Her most holy Rosary.

    I insist that the man pretending to be the Bishop of Rome is apostate from the Faith and has been since his ordination as a priest, which never should have taken place.

    I insist that the Novus Ordo Missae is a travesty of false ecumenism and is harmful to souls no matter how 'reverently' it is used.

    No matter WHAT I or anyone else insists, however, there are things which CANNOT be controverted. There are FACTS which cannot be spoken against.

    They are:

    That there is ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC CHURCH on Earth, founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ the King Himself.

    That this Church is immutable, irreformable and immaculate; and that She ALONE is the repository of the Christian Faith and all that is pertinent to salvation and the duties of man to that end.

    That this Church, inviolate and alone the benefactress of the protection of Our Lord and His Mother, is being slandered, persecuted and victimized by calumny and every sort of base and evil whim of wicked, sinful men.

    That those who have held to Her Traditions before are sworn to do so now and always, and that we shall sanctify ourselves ONLY to THIS CHURCH, and NOT to the pretended ordinances of those who would gainsay Her infallible decrees.

    So help us Almighty God, we WILL maintain the Faith of our fathers and ancestors inviolate, whole and entire until the day that Our Lord's judgment of the heretic pretenders to the See of Rome is rendered and there is once again a shaking of the nations, as Almighty God prophesied.

    O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.

    St. Anthony of Padua, hammer of heretics, terror of Hell, pray for us.

    Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon.

    Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Unity in the Church
    « Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 03:07:19 PM »
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  • SF:
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    Could this be the reason why God is not giving us unity? We're not asking for it! We're just glossing over the words (in the Mass) with absolutely no heart.


    I'm with you, Steve.  One holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church is certainly not modelled in our community.  We have one FSSP chapel, one SSPX chapel, (along with a Dominican order and a Carmelite order which SSPX priests service),  two SV chapels, and a few independents here and there.  Most of them of them are not united in any practical way.  We might as well be Protestant assemblies.  There is less unity among traditional Catholics in our community than there is probably among Sunnis and Shias.

    Offline ServusSpiritusSancti

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    Unity in the Church
    « Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 03:31:51 PM »
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  • Quote from: Thorn
    We have the deposit of faith in the Creed. Sedevacantism, Fatima, and other visions are all personal opinions and should have no bearing where we go to Mass. So we now have the spectacle of Catholics fighting Catholics instead of the enemy. The SSPX is in one corner, the CMRI in another, with the Indults in yet another and on and on it goes. Many people have had their faith sorely tried and some have even lost the faith because of all this nonsense.


    Good point, Thorn.

    Quote from: Stephen Francis
    I insist that the Novus Ordo Missae is a travesty of false ecumenism and is harmful to souls no matter how 'reverently' it is used.


    I completely agree with you. So does Archbishop LeFebvre, as you can see in my signature.


     

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