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Author Topic: ‘Ultimate Criterion of Orthodoxy is Obedience to Living Magisterium’  (Read 2002 times)

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More fuel for the fire of honest debate and discussion.

via NovusOrdoWatch:

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Pope St. Pius X slams Recognize-and-Resist: ‘Ultimate Criterion of Orthodoxy is Obedience to Living Magisterium’

There is Catholic Tradition and then there is “Catholic Tradition”.

The former is what one actually finds in the traditional (i.e. pre-Vatican II) Catholic theology books and the pronouncements of the papal magisterium, whereas the latter is a popularly-accepted caricature thereof that consists of an assortment of quasi-theological ideas cobbled together from select quotations and slogans that were once popularized by recognize-and-resist apologists like Michael Davies (1936-2004) and have been perpetuated ever since the Lefebvrists and their theological cousins.

One only has to think of how these would-be traditionalists frequently appeal to alleged “papolatry”“Ultramontanism”, and “false obedience” to justify their position, and how they make arguments along the lines of “we’ve had bad Popes before”“St. Peter denied Christ three times”“St. Paul rebuked St. Peter to his face”Quo Primum can’t be revoked”“Pope Liberius excommunicated St. Athanasius”“it’s not infallible”“it’s not truly magisterial”.
Then it becomes apparent that these people have obviously never bothered to look these things up in a pre-Vatican II theology book or an anthology of magisterial pronouncements. Among the most influential offenders in that regard, aside from Michael Davies, we may count in particular Christopher FerraraMichael MattPeter KwasniewskiTaylor MarshallSteve SkojecMichael Voris, and John Vennari.

Today we present another example from the real Catholic Magisterium to show how false these popular traditionalist myths are. It comes from none other than Pope St. Pius X (r. 1903-1914), the one man all traditionalists claim to revere and follow, and is an address the Holy Father gave to Catholic university students on May 10, 1909. Pope Pius reminded the young men of the true concept of obedience to the Pope, warning them not to imitate the Modernists, who try to evade this genuine submission to the Roman Pontiff by distorting its true nature and minimizing the obligations a Catholic has with regard to the Apostolic See:

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…I recommend to you only to remain strong in your determination to be loyal sons of the Church of Jesus Christ, at a time when there are so many who, perhaps without knowing it, have shown themselves disloyal. For the first and greatest criterion of the faith, the ultimate and unassailable test of orthodoxy is obedience to the teaching authority of the Church, which is ever living and infallible, since she was established by Christ to be the columna et firmamentum veritatis, “the pillar and support of truth” (1 Tim 3:15).

Jesus Christ, who knew our weakness, who came into the world to preach the gospel to the poor above all, chose for the spread of Christianity a very simple means adapted to the capacity of all men and suited to every age: a means which required neither learning, nor research, nor culture, nor rationalization, but only willing ears to hear, and simplicity of heart to obey. This is why St. Paul says: fides ex auditu (Rom 10:17), faith comes not by sight, but by hearing, from the living authority of the Church, a visible society composed of masters and disciples, of rulers and of governed, of shepherds and sheep and lambs. Jesus Christ Himself has laid on his disciples the duty of hearing the instructions of their masters, on subjects of living in submission to the dictates of rulers, on sheep and lambs of following with docility in the footsteps of their shepherds. And to shepherds, to rulers, and to teachers He has said, Docete omnes gentes. Spiritus veritatis docebit vos omnem veritatem. Ecce ego vobiscuм sum usque ad consummationem sæculi (Mt 28:19-20): “Going, teach ye all nations. The Spirit of truth will teach you all truth. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.”

From these facts you can see how far astray are those Catholics, who, in the name of historical and philosophical criticism and that tendentious spirit which has invaded every field, put in the foremost rank the religious question itself, insinuating that by study and research we should form a religious conscience in harmony with our times, or, as they say, “modern”. And so, with a system of sophisms and errors they falsify the concept of obedience inculcated by the Church; they arrogate to themselves the right of judging the actions of authority even to the extent of ridiculing them; they attribute to themselves a mission to impose a reform — a mission which they have received neither from God nor from any authority. They limit obedience to purely exterior actions, even if they do not resist authority or rebel against it, opposing the faulty judgment of some individual without any real competence, or of their own inner conscience deceived by vain subtleties, to the judgment and commandment of the one who by divine mandate is their lawful judge, master, and shepherd.

Oh, my dear young men! Listen to the words of him who truly wishes you well: do not let yourselves be seduced by mere outward show, but be strong to resist illusions and flatteries and you will be saved!

But the official Church, they say, wants ignorance, impedes the development of religious studies; an intolerable discipline imposes silence. No, dear students: the Church, representing Jesus Christ, continually preaches those same words He addressed to the Jews: Mea doctrina non est mea, sed eius qui misit me; “My doctrine is not mine, but his that send me”; and He added: Si quis voluerit voluntatem eius facere, cognoscet de doctrina, utrum ex Deo sit, an ego a meipso loquar: “If any man will do the will of him, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself” (Jn 7:16-17). That is why the Church has always honored, not only the early Fathers and Doctors, but also the writers of every age who have studied and published works to spread the truth, to defend it against the attacks of unbelievers, and to throw into relief the absolute harmony which exists between faith and reason.

Do not let yourselves be deceived by the subtle declarations of others who do not cease to pretend that they wish to be with the Church, to love the Church, to fight for her so that she will not lose the masses, to work for the Church so that she will come to understand the times and so to win back the people and attach them to herself. Judge these men according to their works. If they maltreat and despise the ministers of the Church and even the Pope; if they try by every means to minimize their authority, to evade their direction, and to disregard their counsels; if they do not fear to raise the standard of rebellion, what Church are these men speaking about? Not, certainly, of that Church established super fundamentum Apostolorum et Prophetarum, ipso summo angulari lapide, Christo Jesus: “upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone” (Eph 2:20). So We must have ever before our mind’s eye that counsel of St. Paul to the Galatians: “If we ourselves or if an angel should teach you any other Gospel than that which we have taught you, let him be anathema” (Gal 1:8).

(Pope Pius X, Address Con Vera Soddisfazione, May 10, 1909; in Acta Apostolicae Sedis, vol. I (1909), pp. 461-464; underlining added. Translation taken from , nn. 716-720; italics given.)

BAM!

Do the ideas, the conduct, and the excuses Saint Pius X condemns not sound awfully familiar? Are they not, mutatis mutandis, what we hear from today’s non-sedevacantist traditionalists?

To put it in terms “Fr.” John Hunwicke and Dr. Peter Kwasniewski will understand: Pope Pius X was a hyper-über-papalist, an Ultramontanist, a veritable papolator! That’s because he was a Catholic!

The reason why the recognize-and-resist pundits never (or rarely) bother with the actual traditional teachings of the Church is that their theology is “need-based” rather than “truth-based”. They do not study traditional doctrine in order to understand what the Church requires them to believe about a certain matter. Rather, they begin with a desired conclusion and then merely look for bits and pieces from theology or from Church history they think will lend support to their thesis.

In this they act much like a defense lawyer who, seeking to get his client a “not guilty” verdict, tries to find and present only helpful pieces of exonerating evidence that are likely to persuade the judge, while omitting, minimizing, or dismissing anything that would lead His Honor to come to a different decision. Perhaps that is why the recognize-and-resist apologists have a number of lawyers or law professors in their ranks (think of Chris Ferrara, Brian McCall, or John Salza).

For those who think that perhaps Pope St. Pius X was teaching a novel and exaggerated doctrine of submission to the Pope, let it be known that he was merely reiterating the teachings of his predecessors, among whom Leo XIII (r. 1878-1903) and Pius IX stand out (r. 1846-1878):

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…t is to give proof of a submission which is far from sincere to set up some kind of opposition between one Pontiff and another. Those who, faced with two differing directives, reject the present one to hold to the past, are not giving proof of obedience to the authority which has the right and duty to guide them; and in some ways they resemble those who, on receiving a condemnation, would wish to appeal to a future council, or to a Pope who is better informed.

(Pope Leo XIII, Apostolic Letter Epistola Tua)

But obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces. For the Christian people, the bishops are not only the teachers of the faith, they are placed at their head to rule and govern them; they are responsible for the salvation of the souls whom God has entrusted to them, and of which they will one day have to render an account. It is for this reason that the Apostle St. Paul addresses this exhortation to Christians: “Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as having to render an account of your souls” [Heb. 13:17].

In fact, it is always true and manifest to all that there are in the Church two grades, very distinct by their nature: the shepherds and the flock, that is to say, the rulers and the people. It is the function of the first order to teach, to govern, to guide men through life, to impose rules; the second has the duty to be submissive to the first, to obey, to carry out orders, to render honor. And if subordinates usurp the place of superiors, this is, on their part, not only to commit an act of harmful boldness, but even to reverse, as far as in them lies, the order so wisely established by the Providence of the Divine Founder of the Church….

Not only must those be held to fail in their duty who openly and brazenly repudiate the authority of their leaders, but those, too, who give evidence of a hostile and contrary disposition by their clever tergiversations and their oblique and devious dealings. The true and sincere virtue of obedience is not satisfied with words; it consists above all in submission of mind and heart.

(Pope Leo XIII, Apostolic Letter Est Sane Molestum)

This chair [of Peter] is the center of Catholic truth and unity, that is, the head, mother, and teacher of all the Churches to which all honor and obedience must be offered. Every church must agree with it because of its greater preeminence — that is, those people who are in all respects faithful….

Now you know well that the most deadly foes of the Catholic religion have always waged a fierce war, but without success, against this Chair; they are by no means ignorant of the fact that religion itself can never totter and fall while this Chair remains intact, the Chair which rests on the rock which the proud gates of hell cannot overthrow and in which there is the whole and perfect solidity of the Christian religion. Therefore, because of your special faith in the Church and special piety toward the same Chair of Peter, We exhort you to direct your constant efforts so that the faithful people of France may avoid the crafty deceptions and errors of these plotters and develop a more filial affection and obedience to this Apostolic See. Be vigilant in act and word, so that the faithful may grow in love for this Holy See, venerate it, and accept it with complete obedience; they should execute whatever the See itself teaches, determines, and decrees.

(Pope Pius IX, Encyclical Inter Multiplices, nn. 1,7)


It’s time for those who mean to have a love for and veneration of Catholic Tradition to abandon the caricature of “Catholic Tradition” and embrace the real doctrine instead.



The above video was made in 2016. Louie Verrecchio has since abandoned this false position on papal authority.

The problem is not the Catholic teaching on the Papacy.

The problem is that a manifest apostate is being accepted as Pope


Renowned theologians slam sede idiots who ignore causes excusing from obedience:

https://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/SiSiNoNo/1999_July/The_1988_Consecrations.htm

This issue of the Angelus English-Language edition of SISINONO begins a series of two studies - one theological and one canonical - regarding the "state of necessity" invoked by Archbishop Lefebvre to justify his consecration of four bishops on June 30, 1988. These remarks are for those who admit the existence of an extraordinary crisis in the Church but do not know how to justify the extraordinary action of Archbishop Lefebvre on June 10, 1988 when, lacking permission from Pope John Paul II, he transmitted the power of episcopal orders to members of the Fraternity founded by him.
 
THEOLOGICAL STUDY – PART I
Archbishop Lefebvre justified his act by appealing to the state of necessity .The force of this excusing cause was not undervalued by Vatican authorites, who did not contest it on the doctrinal level, but responded with an argument of fact, namely, that there was not a state of necessity,1  knowing full well that, if it had been, the action of Archbishop Lefebvre would have been fully justified, even as much as it concerns the "no" of the Pope, according to Catholic doctrine on the state of necessity.
The strength of the justification adduced by Archbishop Lefebvre escapes, on the contrary, most people through the simple fact that Catholic doctrine on the state of necessity is little known. We will try to explain it. The principles we will use are found in any traditional treatises regarding moral law or canon law. It is an absurdity to admit an extraordinary crisis in the Church and, at the same time, to pretend to measure what has been done in such extraordinary circuмstances with the rule of norms valid in ordinary circuмstances. It is contrary to logic and to the doctrine of the Church. Law, in fact:
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...ought to be established on the more ordinary conditions of social life and, in consequence, necessarily leaves out of consideration those things which occur only rarely [emphasis added].2
St. Thomas Aquinas reinforces this principle:
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Universal laws...are established for the good of the whole. Therefore, in establishing them the legislator bears in mind that which happens ordinarily and in the greater number of the cases (Summa Theologica, II-II, Q.147, A.4) [emphasis added].
Therefore, in cases "that happen rarely" and in which "one happens to have to act outside the ordinary laws," "it is necessary to judge on the basis of principles higher than the ordinary laws" (ST, II-II, Q.51, A.4). These "higher principles" are the "general principles of divine and even human law" (Suarez, De Legibus 1. VI c. VI n.5) which supply for the silence of positive law.
The Church is authorized to apply said principles when, because of cases not foreseen by the law, it defers to the general principles of law and to the common and constant judgment of the Doctors, which, precisely because common and constant, must be considered canonized by the Church.3
That having been set forth, we offer for the convenience of readers a summary of the arguments that we will treat here in succession.
 
I. DUTIES AND POWERS OF A BISHOP IN THE STATE OF NECESSITY
A. State of Necessity and Its Various Degrees
The state of necessity consists in "a threat to the spiritual goods of life, of liberty or other earthly goods."4
If the threat regards earthly goods, we have material necessity; if it regards spiritual goods, we have spiritual necessity, a necessity all the "more urgent than that material" to the extent that spiritual goods are more important than material goods.5
In reality various degrees of spiritual necessity can be given, but theologians commonly distinguish five of them:
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1)  ordinary  (or commonspiritual necessity is that in which any sinner finds himself in ordinary circuмstances;
2)  grave spiritual necessity is that when a soul finds herself threatened in spiritual goods of great importance (e.g., faith and morals);
3)  spiritual necessity almost extreme is the status of a soul which, without someone else's help, could be rescued only with great difficulty;
4)  extreme spiritual necessity is that status of a soul is situated which, without the help of someone else, could not be able to be saved or would be able to so with such difficulty that her salvation would considered morally impossible;
5)  grave general (or publicspiritual necessity is that when several souls find themselves threatened in spiritual goods of great importance (e.g., faith and morals). Canonists and theologians commonly adduce  as examples of grave general or public spiritual necessity epidemics and the public spreading of a heresy  [emphasis added].6
 
B. Today's State of Grave General Spiritual Necessity
Today a state of grave general (or public) spiritual necessity exists because many Catholics are threatened in faith and morals by the public and undisputed spreading neo-modernsim or self-styled "new theology," already condemned by Pope Pius XII as the assembly of error which "threaten to destroy the foundations of the Catholic Faith,"7 a revival of that modernism previously condemned by Pope St. Pius X as "the synthesis of all heresies."8
This public diffusion of errors and of heresies was dramatically denounced by Pope Paul VI who went so as to speak of the "auto-destruction" of the Church9 and the "smoke of Satan in the temple of God,”10 and was admitted by Pope John Paul II at the beginning of his pontificate on the occasion of a Congress on missions people:
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There is need to admit realistically and with a deep and sober sensibility that Christians today, for the most part, are dismayed, confused, perplexed and even frustrated; ideas conflicting with revealed and constantly taught Truth have been scattered by handfuls; true and real heresies in the sphere of dogma and morals have been spread, creating doubts, confusions, rebellions; the liturgy has been violated; immersed in intellectual and moral "relativism," and therefore in permissiveness, Christians have been allured by atheism, by agnosticism, by a vaguely moralistic enlightenment, by a socialistic Christianity, without defined dogma and without objective morals.11
There is, therefore, a state of grave public or general necessity: grave, because faith and morals have been threatened; public or general, because these spirit goods, indispensable to salvation, have been threatened among a large part of the Christian people. The situation has grown worse after 20 years of Pope John Paul II:
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It was believed [Pope Paul VI once acknowledged] that after the Council there would have come a sunny day in the history of the Church. There came, on the contrary, a day of clouds, of storm, of doubt.10
Under these "clouds," in this "storm," amidst these "doubts," souls nevertheless must direct their course to the harbor of eternal salvation in the brief time of trial allotted to them. Who can deny that today, generally, many souls live in a state of "grave spiritual necessity?"
 
1. 1st Principle: the Grave Necessity of Many Is Equated with the Grave Necessity of the Individual
It is the common doctrine of theologians and canonists that the grave necessity of many (either general or public) must be equated with the grave necessity of the individual (P. Palazzini, Dictionarium Morale et Canonicuм, vol.1, p.571). This is a fundamental principle because it means that that which is lawful in the extreme necessity of the individual is lawful in the grave necessity of many. Theologians explain the reasons for this:
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1)     because among many persons in grave necessity individual souls in the state of extreme necessity are not lacking, e.g., in an epidemic souls not capable of an act of perfect contrition are not lacking and that in order to be saved, therefore, have need of sacramental absolution. Likewise, if a heresy has been spread, souls unable to defend themselves from the sophisms of the heretics are not lacking and hence are in danger of loosing their faith; 12
2)     because the grave spiritual necessity of many is a threat as well to the common good of Christian society . Not only is there not a spiritual necessity of many which does not become extreme for individual persons, but "in such kind of necessity the Christian religion itself and its honor are very nearly always in grave danger."13
The common good must be considered in danger not only when 1) many effectively suffer harm, but also 2) when they are able to suffer it. In the first application to our case, people lose the faith; in the second, they are able to lose it if, in fact, only oneobjective cause exists which renders this damage possible.14 The spread of errors and heresies already condemned by the Church is sufficient for judging the danger to the common good. These expose the old generations to the loss of faith and deprive the new generations of the integral transmission of doctrine. Both old and young are robbed of the goods due to them by the hierarchy according to the norms of divine law, natural and positive, and also according to the norms of ecclesiastical law (1917 Code of Canon Law, can. 682; 1983 Code of Canon Law, can. 213), doctrine, and the sacraments, the rites of which today have been left to "creativity," as denounced by Pope Pius XII:
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Private individuals, therefore, even though they be clerics, may not be left to decide for themselves in these holy and venerable matters [Mediator Dei (1947), available from Angelus Press. Price: $2.50].
This is enough to say that today not only do many souls live in the state of grave necessity. The "double end which the Church pursues: the good of the religious community and the eternal salvation [of souls]"15 has been compromised and "the very sense and scope of the whole life of the Church [Pope Pius XII]"16 and, hence, the common good, is at stake.
 
2. 2nd Principle: The Grave General Necessity Without Hope Of Help On the Part of Legitimate Pastors Imposes an Obligation of Assistance Upon Clerics
Who is responsible for helping souls in the state of necessity? By way of justice (ex officio) it belongs to the legitimate pastors, but if, for any reason, their help happens to be lacking, this duty falls, by way of charity (ex caritate), up on anyone who has the possibility of offering help.6 St. Alphonsus and Saurez observe that the power of order adds to the duty of charity a duty of state, that is, the duty of the sacerdotal state - instituted by Our Lord precisely for assisting the spiritual needs of souls.17
Note that the duty of charity imposed by the need of souls is a duty under pain of mortal sin. In fact, the greatest commandment, the commandment of charity, obliges coming to the aid of one's neighbor in necessity, especially spiritual, and demands it under pain of mortal sin in extreme or near-extreme necessity of the individual and in the grave necessity of many, which is equivalent to it.l8 Rev. Fr. E. Genicot, SJ., writes that:
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...it can be a grave [thus "sinning mortally by omitting it - Ed.] obligation to aid people who otherwise, through the efforts of heretics and unbelievers, would lose the faith, especially because at times it is morally impossible for the more simple to recognize their sophisms and hence many will probably be in extreme necessity.19
This duty of charity in some cases can oblige also at the risk of one's own life, reputation, and goods. St. Alphonsus says that grave public or general spiritual necessity obliges in this way and that therefore:
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...one is held at the risk of life to administer the sacraments to people who otherwise would be in danger of losing the faith.20
Suarez is of the same mind:
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If I knew that a heresy is being preached among the people by heretics, I would be held to oppose myself to it even in spite of peril to me.21
At his time, Billuart writes:
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...f a heretic perverts a whole community with a false doctrine, a private individual [e.g., the simple faithful or the priest who is not officially invested with the care of those souls - Ed.] is held, when he is able to do it, to obstruct it at the risk of his life. If, in fact, anyone is bound to assist at the risk of life the common temporal good, [how much] greater reason is the spiritual good. All the more in the case where many individuals are found in extreme necessity.22
 

a.) Today's State of Grave General Necessity Without Hope of Help on the Part of Legitimate Pastors

The grave general or public necessity for the souls of today is without hope on the part of the legitimate pastors because these generally are swept away or paralyzed by the neo-modernistic course of the Church. Contradiction to revealed truth is championed by the hierarchy or it is silent or in collusion.

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...deas conflicting with revealed and constantly taught Truth, true and real heresies in the sphere of dogmas and morals [through which] Christians today are dismayed, confused, perplexed,… 11
The Church finds herself in a time of unrest, of self-criticism, it could even be said of auto-destruction. It is almost as if the Church assaults her very Self [Pope Paul VI] .9

This last admission amounts to saying that today the Church and souls are attacked by the very ministers of the Church as at the time of Arianism, when "the priests of Christ were contending against Christ."23

Romano Amerio in Iota Unum [available from Angelus Press. Price: $24.95] has been able to docuмent the doctrinal deviations of the Vatican Council II with conciliar texts, acts of the Holy See, papal allocutions, declarations of cardinals and bishops, pronouncements of Episcopal conferences, and articles from L 'Osservatore Romano.

That is to say, traditional Rome condemns neo-protestant Rome with "official or unofficial disclosures of the Church hierarchy"24 arriving at the conclusion that:

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...the doctrinal corruption has ceased to be a phenomenon of little esoteric circles and has become a public action of the ecclesial body in sermons, books, schools, and catechisms.25

In Iota Unum Romano Amerio illustrates the renunciation on the part of the Holy Father to exercise the power received from Christ Our Lord in order to condemn error and extirpate the ones erring.26 Pope Paul VI admitted:

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So many expect from the Pope outspoken actions and energetic decisions. The Pope cannot consider any other possibility [of action] than that of confidence in Jesus Christ, for Whom His Church matters more than anything else. It will be to up to him to calm the tempest.9

Fine and good, but this does not exempt Peter from maintaining the place of Christ in the government of the Church by taking hold of the rudder again and straightening it out!

Regarding the pontificate of Pope John Paul II, the following declaration of the prefect of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, Joseph Card. Ratzinger, to the Chilean Episcopal Conference (1988) says it all:

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...[T]he myth of Vatican harshness in the face of progressivist deviations has been shown to be an empty speculation. Basically, as of today, only admonitions have been issued [which are] in no case fully canonical in the proper sense.27

The abandonment of utilizing supreme papal authority in the face of error and the ones erring endorses the abandonment of every other authority in the Church. Cardinal Ratzinger continued at the same episcopal conference:

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The same Bishop, who, before the [Second Vatican] Council, used to have an irreproachable professor expelled for somewhat uncouth speech, is in no position to remove, after the Council, a teacher who is denying openly some fundamental truth of the Faith.

Now, whenever souls are not able to hope for help from the legitimate pastors, there is imposed upon anyone having the possibility the duty under pain of mortal sin of offering help to Catholics in large part tempted by atheism, by agnosticism, by a sociological Christianity, without defined dogma and without objective morals, and this duty falls first of all upon the bishops and then the priests, because the failure to help souls in the state of spiritual necessity is a matter not only contrary to the precept of charity, but is also a matter "directly inconsistent with the episcopal and sacerdotal state,...in direct conflict with the episcopal and sacerdotal state (Suarez)."

 

b.) The Duty of Temporary Substitution on the Part of Bishops

This duty of assistance is especially imposed upon the Bishops. Cardinal Journet writes that the papacy and the episcopate:

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...are two forms, one independent...; the other subordinate to one and the same power that comes from Christ and is ordered to the eternal salvation of souls.28

In plain words, the pope and bishops are in the Church through divine positive law as husband and wife are in the family through divine natural law. The bishop is subordinate to the pope, just as the wife must be to her husband, but both ordered to the same end, that is, the good of the Church and the salvation of souls. As the duty is imposed upon the wife to substitute (within the limits of her capabilities) for her husband if, with or without fault, he is delinquent in his office, so the duty is imposed upon bishops to substitute (within the limits their capabilities) for the pope if, with or without fault, does not provide for the necessity of souls.

 

3) 3rd Principle: The Obligation of Assistance Is Coextensive With the Power of Order (But Not of Jurisdiction). The Power of Jurisdiction Springs From the Necessity of the Faithful.

In necessity one is bound to offer help, while it is needed, within the limits of one's possibilities, which, for a priest or bishop, means within the limits of their own power of Order. It is on account of this that in the extreme necessity of the individual and in the grave necessity of many, any priest is bound under pain of mortal sin to give sacramental absolution, even if deprived of jurisdiction.6 St. Alphonsus writes that even:

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...the excommunicated vitandus, if he can validly administer the sacraments, is bound to administer them in danger of death on account of divine and natural precept to which the human precept of the Church would not be able to oppose itself.29

In brief, as long as the extreme necessity of the individual or the grave necessity of many demands it, one can lawfully, indeed, one must under pain of mortal sin do all that he is able to do validly in virtue of the power of order. The necessary jurisdiction is acquired at the request of souls. The 1917 Code of Canon Law (can. 2261, §§2,3) states that the faithful can "on account of any just cause" demand the sacraments from an excommunicated priest [whom the Church has deprived of jurisdiction] and at that time the one excommunicated, so requested, can administer them. Fr. Hugueny, O.P. remarks that "the demand [of the faithful] gives to the excommunicated priest the power of administering the sacraments."30 This means that, in necessity, the exercise of the power of order to the full extent necessary is called into act not by the will of the hierarchical superior, but directly by the state of necessity. "The action otherwise prohibited...is rendered licit and permitted by the state of necessity. [Catholic Encyclopedia, on "Necessity (State of)"].

In such extraordinary circuмstances, the jurisdiction lacking is said to be supplied by the Church. The Council of Trent (Sess. XIV, c.7) [Denzinger, 903] assures us that it is contrary to the mind of the Church that souls be lost by reason of jurisdictional reservations or limitations:

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But lest anyone perish on this account, it has always been piously observed in the same Church of God that there be no [jurisdictional] reservation at the moment of death [i.e., grave necessity of the individual thus equated with grave necessity of many - Ed.].31

And Pope Innocent XI, cutting off every argument on the subject, establishes definitively that in necessity the Church supplies jurisdiction lacking even to heretical, infamous, and excommunicated vitandi priests.32

The thought and practice of the Church has as its principle that in necessity there is imposed, through natural and positive law, a grave duty of charity and that against the divine and natural law the Church does not have any power. In addition to St. Alphonsus already quoted above, Suarez writes, “Justice or charity command avoiding...harm to neighbor, and to this [divine] mandate human law cannot be reasonable opposed.33 St. Thomas Aquinas says that "the disposition of human law cannot ever infringe upon the natural law and the law of God (ST; ll-ll, Q.66, A.7).

This is valid above all for human ecclesiastical law which is meant to facilitate the exercise of charity, not obstruct it. Fr. Cappello writes that it is certain that the Church supplies jurisdiction in order to provide either for the extreme necessity of the individual or "for the public or general necessity of the faithful.34 The reason, says St. Alphonsus, is that otherwise many souls would be lost and therefore it is reasonably presumed that the Church supplies jurisdiction.35 In other words, as in material necessity things revert to their primary end, which is the benefit of all men in general, so in spiritual necessity the power of Order reverts to its primary end, which is that of providing for the necessity of all souls in general, and the limitation (or total deprivation) of jurisdiction arising from ecclesiastical laws vanishes.36 St. Thomas Aquinas explains.

In virtue of the power of order, any priest has power indifferently over all [men] and for all sins. The fact that he is not able to absolve all from all sins depends on the jurisdiction imposed by the ecclesiastical law. But since necessity is not subject to law [c. Consilium de Observ. Ieiun., De Reg. Iur. (V Decretal.) c.4], in case of necessity, he is not impeded by the discipline of the Church from being able to absolve even sacramentally provided that he has the power of order [Supplement, Q.8, A.6].

 

a.)   The Doctrine on "Supplied Jurisdiction" Is Applied Regarding a Bishop Who in an Extraordinary Necessity Consecrates Another Bishop. The Primacy of Jurisdiction of the Pope. 

The doctrine on supplied jurisdiction is ordinarily treated in regard to the sacrament of Penance because the lack of jurisdiction renders confession not only unlawful but also invalid. This doctrine, however, can also be applied to other areas through analogy.37 As a priest in the extreme necessity of the individual or in grave public necessity without hope of help from the legitimate pastors can and must absolve sacramentally "given that he has the power of order" (St Thomas, op. cit.), so a Bishop, if a grave and general necessity of souls without hope of help from the legitimate pastors demands it, is able and duty-bound of transmitting the episcopacy, given that he has the power of order.

Fr. Cappello says that it is certain that the Church supplies jurisdiction in order to provide for the "public or general necessity of the faithful" in all those cases "in which she has manifested either expressly or at least tacitly being willing to supply it."38 Now, it is evident from history that the Church has manifested, at least tacitly, her will to supply jurisdiction through the consecration of other bishops in case of grave general or public spiritual necessity. Recent history records that "clandestine" bishops were consecrated without Pontifical approval in order to provide for the grave general necessity of souls. Longer ago, during the Arian crisis, St. Eusebius of Samosata and other bishops, not only consecrated but even established other bishops in episcopal sees,39 and the Church has not hesitated to proclaim his sanctity .

Cardinal Billot writes that Our Lord instituted the primacy, but left in some way the limits of episcopal power undefined, precisely because:

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...it would not have been fitting that those things which are subject to change would be unchangeably fixed by divine law. Some things are indeed subject to change because of the variety of circuмstances and of times and because of greater or lesser facility of recourse to the Apostolic See among other such-like things [De Ecclesia Christi, Q.XV, §2, p.713]

History confirms that the state of necessity extended not only the duties of bishops, but also their power of jurisdiction. Dom Grea whose attachment to the pope is above all suspicion testifies (De l’Eglise et de sa divine consitution, vol. I) that not only at the beginning of Christianity did the "necessity of the Church and the Gospel" demand that the power of the episcopal order be exercised in all its fullness without jurisdictional limitations, but that in successive ages extraordinary circuмstances required" even more exceptional and more extraordinary manifestations" of episcopal power (ibid., p.218) in order "to apply a remedy to the current necessity of the Christian people" (ibid. and ƒƒ.), for whom there was no hope of aid on the part of the legitimate pastors nor from the Pope. In such circuмstances, in which the common good of the Church is also at stake, the jurisdictional limitations vanish and "that which is universal" in episcopal power "comes directly to the aid of souls" (ibid., p.218):

Quote
Thus in the 4th century St. Eusebius of Samosata is seen passing through the Oriental Church devastated by the Arians and ordaining Catholic Bishops for them without having any special jurisdiction over them" (op. cit. p.218).

Palazzini recalls that:

Quote
...today jurisdiction [over a diocese] is conferred [upon bishops] directly and expressly by the Pope…Formerly, however, it used to derive more indirectly from the Vicar of Christ as if from itself it flowed from the Pope onto those bishops, who were in union and peace with the Roman Church, mother and head of all churches [emphasis added].40

Jurisdiction "as if from itself" seems to have flowed from the Pope in the history of the Church whenever a grave necessity of the Church and of souls demanded it. In such extraordinary circuмstances, says Dom Grea, the episcopacy proceeded "resolute in the tacit consent of its Head rendered certain by necessity" (op. cit. vol.I, p.220). Dom Grea does not say that the consent of the pope rendered the bishops certain of the necessity. On the contrary, the necessity rendered them certain of the consent of the pope. Precisely why did the necessity render the consent of their Head "certain," consent that in reality those bishops were ignoring? - Evidently because in necessity the positive judgment of Peter is owed. If from Christ, on the strength of his primacy, Peter has the power of extending or restricting the exercise of the power of episcopal order, from Christ he also has the duty to extend or restrict it according to the necessity of the Church and of souls. In the exercise of the power of the keys, Christ remains always the "principle agent" and "no other man can exercise [the power of the keys] as principle agent" (St. Thomas, Supplement, Q.19, A.4), but only "as instrument and minister of Christ" (ibid., Q.18, A.4). The keys of Peter are also "keys of ministry," and therefore not even Peter can use the power of the keys arbitrarily, but must be attentive to the divine order of things. The divine order is that jurisdiction flows to others by means of Peter, yes, but such that it is supplied "in a manner sufficient for the salvation of the faithful" (St. Thomas, Contra Gentiles, Bk.4, c.72). Therefore, if Peter prevented it from being supplied sufficiently for the need of souls, he would act against the divine order and would commit a most grave fault (St. Thomas, Supplement, Q8, AA.4-9ƒƒ.).

Primacy is none other than the fullest possession of that "public power of governing the faithful so that they may attain eternal life."41 It is the fullness of that power of jurisdiction which is "granted not for the advantage of the trustee, but for the good of the people and for the honor of God" (ibid., Q8, A.5, ad.1) and:

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...no principle of law and no sense of equity stands when that which has been salutarily instituted for the advantage of men is turned to their harm [Digesto, cit. in ST; II-I, Q.96, A.6; II-II, Q.60, A.5, ad.2].

Therefore, Dom Grea writes that the extraordinary manifestations of episcopal power do not call into question the doctrine on the primacy, because necessity without hope of help from the legitimate pastors takes the "extraordinary action" of the episcopate back to "the essential laws of the hierarchy" which are not at all weakend by the ordinary jurisdictional laws.

Illustrating the hierarchical constitution of the Church, St. Thomas writes:

Quote
...[H]e who has universal power [i.e., the Pope - Ed.] can exercise upon all the power of the keys. Those, [i.e., the bishops - Ed.], on the other hand, who under him have received a distinct power, are not able to use the power of the keys on just anyone, but only on those who have fallen to them by lot, save the cases of necessity (Supplement, Q.20, A.1).

That means that the hierarchical constitution of the Church, and hence the primacy, is not put into question by "action otherwise prohibited and which is rendered licit and permitted by the state of necessity."42

 

b.)   Refutation of Objections 

In connection with the case of Archbishop Lefebvre, those eager to save the papal primacy (which, when the state of necessity is involved, is not in question) have protested to include the bishops' duty to help within the strict limits of the power of jurisdiction. For example, according to a little work published by the Fraternity of St. Peter,43 the problem posed by the episcopal consecrations of Archbishop Lefebvre must be dealt with not only from the standpoint of the power of order, but also from the aspect of the power of jurisdiction. Hence it is in the "order of things willed by Christ Himself" that it belongs always and only to the Supreme Pontiff"to elevate the inferior...to the level of successor of the Apostles while conferring on him a limited jurisdiction" (Du sacre episcopale contra la volonte du Pape, p.15). Archbishop Lefebvre did not do this. He specified clearly his intention was to transmit only the power of order, not that of jurisdiction. This book argues that in no case, not even in the case of necessity, can a bishop ordain another bishop without papal mandate. The rigor of this exclusion is illustrated by the authors using an example from the sacraments:

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Thus he who does not have water for baptizing is not able to baptize the dying child with orange juice [and] he who is not a priest is not able to give absolution to one dying even if he would have need (ibid., p.57).

This is incompetent theology and horrible logic! We leave the response to St. Thomas:

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Baptism owes its efficacy to the consecration of the sacramental matter [and therefore no one will ever be able to baptize with orange juice - Ed.]...On the other hand, the efficacy of the sacrament of Penance [just as of the sacrament of Holy Orders - Ed.] derives from the consecration of the minister (Supplement, Q8, A.6, ad.3).

Therefore, no one but a priest can absolve, not even in the case of necessity, because only the priest has the power of order. And, not having the power of order, he doesn't have the duty to do it. On the contrary, he who has the power of order functions validly and in the case of necessity, when there is need, is lawfully able to, indeed must, do all that he is able to do validly, that is, a priest must absolve and a bishop consecrate another a bishop "given that he has the power of order" (St. Thomas, op. cit.). The laws limiting the power of episcopal order are not invalidating or incapacitating laws, that is, those that render the act null or render the subject incapable of accomplishing it validly [which are rather divine laws governing the matter and minister of the sacraments - Ed.), but are jurisdictional laws and therefore ecclesiastical. St. Alphonsus says that concerning the matter and the form of the sacraments the Church has no power, but concerning jurisdiction the Church is able to supply and is presumed to supply certainly for the good of souls.44

In the whole history of the Church no one can be found baptized with orange juice. What is found, on the other hand, are bishops nominated, consecrated, and instituted though "Peter being unadvised" (Suarez) and even during the period of a vacant see.45 Such a thing could not have happened if it were included in the "order of things willed by Christ Himself” that it belongs always and only to Peter to nominate and institute bishops and "in no case" to another bishop. If it was really such, the "order of things willed by Christ Himself” would have been repeatedly violated by the Church through the centuries, which is indefensible.

The authors of Du sacre episcopale contre la volonte du Pape, confronting historical proof that bishops consecrated bishops without the pope's express approval, assert (p.63.ƒƒ) that this demonstrates "the Church knows how to be realistic" and the Council of Nicea (325), while designating the metropolitans as competent in the appointment and installation of bishops, speaks "especially of the difficulties of a geographic nature" (p.64). The assertion is a contradiction. Regarding a question of the "order of things willed by Christ Himself," the Church is not able to be "realistic." It is not allowed to the Church to be "realistic" about the minister or about the matter of the sacraments and thus has never been able for "geographic reasons" that a priest ordain a bishop46 nor that in the countries where grapes aren't grown Mass be able to be celebrated with matter different from wine. If, therefore, the Church, concerning the appointment and installation of bishops, has been "realistic" and taken account of the "difficulties of a geographic nature," it is a sign it is not in the "order of things willed by Christ Himself” that the nomination and installation of a bishop belongs always and only to the Roman Pontiff. It is not true that "in no case" -not even in the case of necessity - can one bishop nominate and institute another. As in the day, for example, when the Arian heresy was threatening the whole Church, so also in our day in Eastern Europe. As long as grave necessity without hope of help for souls and for the Church demanded, bishops have consecrated other bishops not only validly but also lawfully, despite failure to receive a mandate from the Pope. These bishops have exercised their episcopal power not only validly but also licitly because the necessity of the Church and of souls demanded it. It is significant that some theologians, hypothesize that the Church tacitly supplies jurisdiction also to the schismatic Orthodox bishops, so that with the consecration of other bishops as well as with the ordination of other priests, the necessity of so many souls is provided for.47 Therefore, the problem of the episcopal consecrations of Archbishop Lefebvre, must certainly be dealt with not only from the standpoint of the power of order, but also from the aspect of the power of jurisdiction, without exclusion of the Catholic doctrine of "supplied jurisdiction" in extraordinary circuмstances. In the Church, jurisdiction is for souls and not souls for jurisdiction. The erroneous course taken by the authors of Du sacre episcopale contre la volonte du Pape leads them to conclude that "the question of the consecrations is a fundamentally dogmatic matter and therefore [emphasis added - Ed.] unchangeable in its solution, whatever may be the circuмstances," and consequently, unconstrained application of the principle "positive law does not oblige in a grave inconvenience" seems too rapid a conclusion to justify the episcopal consecrations (op. cit., p.7).

The fact here is that "grave inconvenience" as it applies to Archbishop Lefebvre is not treated here. But, his absolute moral impossibility to obey either the law or the legislator is hastily brushed aside with the "therefore" of the authors' statement: "It is a fundamentally dogmatic matter and therefore unchangeable in its solution [emphasis added]."

A disciplinary law [and such are the jurisdictional laws which regulate the exercise of the power of order - Ed.], even if fundamentally dogmatic, does not lose its nature of a disciplinary law and become a dogmatic question and "therefore unchangeable in its solution."

In canon law there are laws "proposed" by the Church (e.g., the norms of divine natural and positive law, among which is the canon on papal primacy), and laws "established" by the Church (among which are the norms restricting the exercise of the power of episcopal order, e.g., the papal reservation on episcopal consecrations).48 Law constituted by the Church is fundamentally dogmatic because dogma is the presupposition and the guide of the canonical norm,49 but the canonical norm remains quite separate and distinguishable from its dogmatic foundation. The distinction is made by looking at the initial legislator of the norm.50It is evident that papal primacy is of divine law, because it was initiated by Our Lord Jesus Christ, but the papal reservation on episcopal ordinations is an ecclesiastical law because it was initiated directly by the Pope himself. It is for this reason that, as the following quote exemplifies, the modification of ecclesiastical discipline is possible.

Quote
By the 11th century..., because of the abuses that arose on the part of the Metropolitans at times, the consecration of bishops gradually began to be reserved in some places to the Supreme Pontiff, and then by the 15th century reservation became universal [and only in the Latin Church].51

You see that episcopal reservation is fixed in time, having been introduced belatedly in the Church motivated by abuses and not from divine law. Certainly, the Pope instituted this reservation in virtue of his primacy, and the Primacy is therefore the dogmatic foundation of this canonical norm, but it is not lawful on account of this to identify the canonical norm with its dogmatic foundation and thus conclude the norm is "unchangeable" on the same level as its dogmatic foundation! This amounts to making void every distinction between divine law and human ecclesiastical law, and, between dogmatic laws and jurisdictional laws. Declaring a canonical norm "unchangeable in its solution, whatever the circuмstances may be" only because it has a “dogmatic foundation" means rendering unchangeable all or most of Canon Law and absurdly annulling the doctrine on causes excusing from the obligation of the law!.

Since Our Lord Jesus Christ had instituted the papal primacy but has not directly determined the limits of episcopal jurisdiction and has left these instead to the Roman Pontiff, it is certain that the papal reservation on episcopal ordinations is not of divine law, but ecclesiastical law, and hence is not "unchangeable whatever the circuмstances may be." On the contrary, we invoke the following clause applicable to all ecclesiastical law, that is, law constituted by the Church, which otherwise must be followed except:

Quote
...for the common good and the salvation of souls prudently examined in a particular and extraordinary case; [a clause which] being universal and arising from the nature of things through force of reason, is omitted from die particular determination of law, without, however, really ceasing to prescribe the matter and obligation determined by every human law.52

 

Quote
(Part II of this theological study of the 1988 Episcopal Consecrations will appear in the Sept. 1999 SiSiNoNo insert in The Angelus.)



1. Motu Proprio of July 2, 1988.

2. Brisbois Apropos des lois purement penales in Nouvelle revue theologique, 65 (1938), p.1072

3. V. can. 20 of the Pian-Benedictine Code and F. M. Cappello, S.J., Ius suppletorium in Summa iuris canonici, vol.I (Roma, 1961), p.79.

4. V.E. Eichmann-KI. Morsdor, Trattato di diritto canonica, and G. May, Legittima difesa, resistenza, necessita.

5. St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, Suppl, Q.8 A.6; v., also P. Palazzini, Dictionarium morale et canonicuм, under the word, "caritas” (erga proximum)

6. See, for example, P. Palazzini, Dictionarium morale et canonicuм, under the word "caritas”; Billuart, De charitate, diss. IV, art.3; Genicot, S.J., Institutiones Theologiae moralis, vol.l, 217, A and B, etc.

7. Pope Pills XII, Humani Generis, 1950 (Kansas City: Angelus Press).

8. Motu proprio, Nov. 18, 1907.

9. Discourse of Pope Paul VI at the Lombard Seminary in Rome, Dec. 7, 1968.

10. Discourse of Pope Paul VI, June 30, 1972.

11L 'Osservatore Romano, Feb. 7, 1981.

12. V.E. Genicot, SJ., Institutiones Theologiae Moralis, vol. I, 217B; Billuart, De caritate Diss., IV, art.3; St. Alphonsus, Theologia Moralis, Book 3, n.27.

13. F. Saurez, De charitate disput, IX, sect.lI, n.4.

14. V. Roberti-Palazzini, Dizionario di teologia morale, ed. Studium, under the word, "supplied jurisdiction."

15. Naz, Dict. Droit Canonique, under the word "canon law," col.1446.

16. Discourse (in French) to the Second World Congress of the Apostolate of the Laity, Oct. 1957.

17. St. Alphonsus, Theologia moralis, 16, tract 4, n.625, and, Opere Morali, ed. Marietti (Torino, 1848), tract.XVI, cap.VI, nn.126-127. 

18. I Jn. 3:17; S.T:, II-II, Q.32, A.I, and A.5, ad. 2; Q 71, A.I ; Billuart, De caritate, dissert.IV , art.3.

19. E. Genicot, S.J., op.cit, vol.l, n217, B and C.

20. Theologia moralis, 1.3, tract 3, n.27.

21. F. Suarez, De charitate, disput.9, sect.lI, n.4.

22De caritate, D dissert.IV, art.3.

23. St. Jerome, Adversus Luciferianos.

24. Romano Amerio, Iota Unum (Kansas City: Angelus Press, 1996), p.2.

25. ibid.,p.716.

26. ibid.,pp.143ƒƒ.

27. Il Sabato, July 30/Aug. 5, 1988.

28. Card.Joumet, L'Eglise du Verbe lncame, vol.1.

29. St. Alphonsus, Theologia Moralis, I, VI, tract 4,n.560.

30. Somme Theologique, t. XIII, La Petence, p.420.

31. Suarez (De poenitentia disp. XXVI, sect. IV n. 6), it is asked if this constant and common custom guarded by the Church may not be of Divine institution. In every case - they conclude - the Church would not be able to abolish it, because this would be to use power "not for building, but for destroying." (ibid.)

32. St. Alphonsus, De poenitentiae sacramento, tract XVI, ch.V, n.92.

33. F.Suarez, De Legibus, 1,Vl,c.VIl,n.13.

34. F. M. Cappello, Summa Iuris Canonici, vol.I, p.258, n.258, §2; see also, P. Palazzini, Dictionarium, at the word "iurisdictio suppleta."

35. St. Alphonsus, De poenitentiae sacramento, tract XCI, c.V,n.90.

36. St Thomas, ST;II-II,Q.66,A.7;cƒlI-II,Q.32,A-7, ad.3.

37. V. P. Palazzini, Dictionarium morale et canonicuм at the word, "iurisdictio suppleta."

38. F. M. Cappello, S.J., Summa iuris  canonici, vol.I (Rome, 1961), p.252. 

39. V. Manlio Simonetti, La Crisi ariana nel IV secolo (Institutum Patristicuм Augustinianum, Via S., Uffizio 25, Roma), 1975.

40. Dictionarium morale et canonicuм, at the word "Episcopi"

41. ibid at the word "iurisdictio."

42. Catholic Encyclopedia, at the word, "necessity (state of)."

43. Du sacre episcopale contre la volonte du Pape, joint essay of the Fraternity of St. Peter.

44. De poenitentiae sacramento, tract XVI, c.V, n.91.

45. Card. J oumet, L'Eglise du Verbe lncarne, vol.I, p.528, note 2.

46. V. Salaverri, De Ecclesia in summa Theologiae (BAC, Madrid).

47. Card.Journet, op. cit., vol.lI, pp.656-657. Fr. Tito Centi, O.P., in note 1 to the STof St. Thomas, ed. Salani. II-II Q.39, A.4, he wirtes: "We have an indication in the fact that the Church does not demand a general confession of those schismatics who return to unity nor convalidation for their practicable matrimonial impediments."

48. V. P. Palazzini, Dictionarium morale et canonicuм, at the word, "fontes iuris canonici”; Naz, Dictionnaire Droit canonique, at the word “droit canonique."

49. Naz, Ioc. cit

50. E. Genicot, S.J., Instititutiones theologiae moralis, vol.I, n.85.

51. V. P. Palazzini, Dictionrium, cit at the word, “mandatum apostlicuм.”

52. L. Rodrigo, Praelectiones theologico-morales comillenses, II, tract., De Legibus (Sal terrae, Santander, 1944), n.393, 2nd, p.294 (cit. in, Aequitas canonica, of F.J. Urrutia, S.J., Periodica de re morali, canonica, liturgica, vol.73, p.46, note 21, Pontifical Gregorian University).


Text shown in the video in the OP:

Quote from: Quanta cura, Blessed Pope Pius IX, 1864
Nor can we pass over in silence the audacity of those who, not enduring sound doctrine, contend that “without sin and without any sacrifice of the Catholic profession assent and obedience may be refused to those judgments and decrees of the Apostolic See, whose object is declared to concern the Church’s general good and her rights and discipline, so only it does not touch the dogmata of faith and morals.” But no one can be found not clearly and distinctly to see and understand how grievously this is opposed to the Catholic dogma of the full power given from God by Christ our Lord Himself to the Roman Pontiff of feeding, ruling and guiding the Universal Church.
https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanta.htm

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Nobody’s going to read this.  Not sure why you decided to post something this long.  Link to it, as a forum is not the right place.

This is a waste of time.  There are numerous opinions on this matter.

All that we need to know is that the Catholic Church and a legitimate pope cannot do these things.  QED modo tollentis ... modo ponentis argument is a waste of everyone’s time.

Nobody’s going to read this.  Not sure why you decided to post something this long.  Link to it, as a forum is not the right place.

This is a waste of time.  There are numerous opinions on this matter.

All that we need to know is that the Catholic Church and a legitimate pope cannot do these things.  QED modo tollentis ... modo ponentis argument is a waste of everyone’s time.

Tapping out already?

I haven’t even posted part 2!

What kind of sede-Feeneyite are you?  You should have a 75 page thread minimum!