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Author Topic: Two Views on the New Mass: Indult/Fr. Ripperger's and R&R/Fr. Wathen's.  (Read 5805 times)

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There are two views of the New Mass

Re: Two Views on the New Mass: Indult/Fr. Ripperger's and R&R/Fr. Wathen's.
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2024, 10:58:51 AM »
There are two views of the New Mass
Did you mean to say you hold to "2"?  Because it sounds like you hold to "1". :confused:


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Two Views on the New Mass: Indult/Fr. Ripperger's and R&R/Fr. Wathen's.
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2024, 11:09:12 AM »
Quote
the extreme view of Fr. Wathen, namely that the New Mass is supposedly "idolatry", "heresy", "blasphemy", always a "sacrilege", and a "mortal sin" etc.
If you go read the "Ottaviani Intervention", which was written by Cardinal Ottaviani (the top theologian in rome at the time), along with Cardinal Bacci and other theologians, you will see his (paraphrased) conclusions:

1.  The new mass is a "striking departure from the Faith at Trent" (i.e. heresy).
2.  The new mass' theology is anti-Trent (i.e. new religion/idolatry).
3.  The new mass' consecration is "positively doubtful" (i.e. canon law states it is a mortal sin to attend doubtful sacraments, except in danger of death).

So, these Cardinals agreed with Fr Wathen's main points.  And they were critiquing the "most pure form" of the new mass, before it had been released, post V2.  These Cardinals were asked by Paul VI to analyze the new mass and give their opinions.  They condemned it 100%.

The rest of Fr Wathen's condemnations (i.e. blasphemy and sacrilege) were confirmed AFTER the new mass was officially released, when the ACTUAL "mass" was much worse than the "pure form".  The blasphemy/sacrilege came from 'communion-in-the-hand', the 'new age/community' antics of the "priests" and the gross irreverence/sacrilege of the "smells and bells" of this abomination.

So, yes, Fr Wathen was right.  And many other of the "pioneer Trads" of the 70s/80s agreed with him.

The sspx was always wishy-washy on the new mass and still are.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Two Views on the New Mass: Indult/Fr. Ripperger's and R&R/Fr. Wathen's.
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2024, 11:41:23 AM »
Fr. Wathen:
"People should know that attending the Indult Mass represents a very serious compromise of their faith. Before a bishop allows the Traditional Latin Mass in one of his Novus Ordo churches, according to papal direction, he exacts this commitment: Those to whom the Mass is made available must give a verbal acceptance to the Second Vatican Council and to the new mass. Whether they know it or not, everyone who attends the Indult Mass makes the same implicit commitment. In the days of the Rome persecutions, a Catholic could escape martyrdom if he would burn the tiniest pinch of incense before one of the countless Roman gods. The commitment which the pope and bishops require is that pinch of incense."

I am always amazed that trad priests and bishops, who would not be caught dead saying the NOM do not fully condemn it for the great sacrilege that it is.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: Two Views on the New Mass: Indult/Fr. Ripperger's and R&R/Fr. Wathen's.
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2024, 11:50:55 AM »
https://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2023/08/on-superior-merit-of-traditional-mass.html
Before anyone panics, let me add that Fr. Ripperger basis his conclusion upon a clear distinction between the intrinsic and extrinsic value of a Mass. The intrinsic value a Mass refers to the value in the Mass as a work of God, particularly in the ex opere operato graces present in the Eucharistic sacrifice. The intrinsic value of any valid Mass is therefore infinite, since it is Christ's own infinitely valuable sacrifice to the Father. Intrinsically, then, the New Rite of Mass is just as efficacious as the traditional rite or as any other valid rite, inasmuch as the infinite value of the Eucharistic sacrifice is present in both forms.
I listened to many sermons and talks by the good Father, but the bolded is what prompted me to abandon Fr. Ripperger for good.

All anyone has to do is look at what the NOM has done to the faith of those who [still] go there. 90% of them (priests and bishops included) do not believe in the Real Presence for crying out loud. At consecration(?) the priest remains facing the people to show them what they are about to eat and drink, he's not reenacting the holy sacrifice of Calvary. I could go on, but the tolerance of the NOM and lack of being anti-NO is prevalent in Fr. Ripperger's sermons.