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Author Topic: Traditional Leaders  (Read 3594 times)

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Offline Gray2023

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Traditional Leaders
« on: December 08, 2023, 09:21:54 PM »
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  • I am just curious.  We have been 32 years without +ABL.  Who are the current Bishops and Priests we should be watching to see if they are able to STRENGTHEN AND UNIFY traditional Catholics?
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #1 on: December 09, 2023, 12:07:50 AM »
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  • The Pope... it might be a long watch, though! Couple that with a lot of Rosaries.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #2 on: December 09, 2023, 09:07:58 AM »
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  • There can be no real unity without the Pope, as the Pope is the principle of unity for Catholics ... so I wouldn't hold my breath.  +Lefebvre was able to provide a certain amount of unity due to his stature and his character, but it was an artificial unity based on his person.  Bishop Williamson realized this, and spoke of it even before +Lefebvre died, and it's one of the reasons he chose not to found his own "organization".

    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #3 on: December 09, 2023, 10:13:43 AM »
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  • So in the meantime, who are some good bishops and priests to listen to, who help more with the formation of our personal souls as oppose of fighting the Crisis, which there is no current solution?  I don't want the rhetoric of listen to me because I am right. I don't want to be told you're sinning if you go to this group's Mass.  I think it is time for Catholics to fortify themselves.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #4 on: December 09, 2023, 10:17:40 AM »
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  • So in the meantime, who are some good bishops and priests to listen to, who help more with the formation of our personal souls as oppose of fighting the Crisis, which there is no current solution?  I don't want the rhetoric of listen to me because I am right. I don't want to be told you're sinning if you go to this group's Mass.  I think it is time for Catholics to fortify themselves.

    There are many good bishops and priests out there, even if they disagree on some things.


    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #5 on: December 09, 2023, 10:27:01 AM »
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  • There are many good bishops and priests out there, even if they disagree on some things.
    Please add the websites here for easy access.
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Mysterium Fidei

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #6 on: December 09, 2023, 12:25:55 PM »
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  • Please add the websites here for easy access.
    Whatever website someone would post, there are going to be those who don't like it. I think everyone on here knows the different groups and the bishops associated with them.


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #7 on: December 09, 2023, 01:11:03 PM »
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  • I am just curious.  We have been 32 years without +ABL.  Who are the current Bishops and Priests we should be watching to see if they are able to STRENGTHEN AND UNIFY traditional Catholics?

    Gray,

    Some of his disciples on this forum, think +AB Vigano will fill the leadership vacuum.



    And some on this forum think he is just another social media Marrano.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #8 on: December 09, 2023, 01:12:02 PM »
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  • Please add the websites here for easy access.

    There are sites / videos / materials everywhere.  Just type in a bishop or priest you're looking for and add something like sermons:  "Bishop Sanborn sermons" for example.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #9 on: December 09, 2023, 01:33:23 PM »
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  • "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #10 on: December 09, 2023, 01:54:11 PM »
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  • Here is one of the biggest repositories of traditional Catholic sermons on the internet.


    Offline Gray2023

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #11 on: December 09, 2023, 06:27:36 PM »
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  • Thank you.  
    1 Corinthians: Chapter 13 "4 Charity is patient, is kind: charity envieth not, dealeth not perversely; is not puffed up; 5 Is not ambitious, seeketh not her own, is not provoked to anger, thinketh no evil;"

    Offline Univocity

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #12 on: December 10, 2023, 04:19:27 AM »
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  • So in the meantime, who are some good bishops and priests to listen to, who help more with the formation of our personal souls as oppose of fighting the Crisis, which there is no current solution?  I don't want the rhetoric of listen to me because I am right. I don't want to be told you're sinning if you go to this group's Mass.  I think it is time for Catholics to fortify themselves.
    It sounds to me like Boshop Pivarunas and the CMRI might be a good selection based on your description.  They tend to take a middle course on controversial issues within traditionalism: not condemning the attendance of "una cuм Masses" or the use of the old Holy Week rites for instance, while still not offering either within their organization.

    Bishop Carmona has Bishop Livarunas make an oath to promote Church unity before consecration him, and it seems to me evident in such policies.  Refusing to bind the consciences of the faithful in matters which were not defined prior to Vatican 2 is a constant with them. 
     
    That said, for sound moral and spiritual doctrine, other groups are excellent as well.  You may get more polemics from one group or another but we all learn to look past that.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #13 on: December 10, 2023, 06:06:54 AM »
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  • It sounds to me like Bishop Pivarunas and the CMRI might be a good selection based on your description.  They tend to take a middle course on controversial issues within traditionalism: not condemning the attendance of "una cuм Masses" or the use of the old Holy Week rites for instance, while still not offering either within their organization.

    Bishop Carmona has Bishop Pivarunas make an oath to promote Church unity before consecration him, and it seems to me evident in such policies.  Refusing to bind the consciences of the faithful in matters which were not defined prior to Vatican 2 is a constant with them.
     
    That said, for sound moral and spiritual doctrine, other groups are excellent as well.  You may get more polemics from one group or another but we all learn to look past that.
    Good post.  I didn't know about the required "oath".  Where are you getting that?

    Although I disagree with certain of his views, I believe that Bishop Sanborn is second to none when it comes to sermons on matters of morality. He is my go-to when I am looking for counsel on a certain sin, etc.

    PS.  Yeti's link above is also very good. I have that bookmarked on my computer as well.

    Offline Univocity

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    Re: Traditional Leaders
    « Reply #14 on: December 10, 2023, 06:04:26 PM »
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  • Good post.  I didn't know about the required "oath".  Where are you getting that?

    Although I disagree with certain of his views, I believe that Bishop Sanborn is second to none when it comes to sermons on matters of morality. He is my go-to when I am looking for counsel on a certain sin, etc.

    PS.  Yeti's link above is also very good. I have that bookmarked on my computer as well.
    Wow I need to spellcheck before posting lol.  I learned about the oath concerning Church unity from a seminarian and have had it confirmed by multiple priests.  I agree 100% about Bishop Sanborn and his sermons on morality, as long as you exclude the una cuм and Holy Week questions.  Since it sounds as though OP is looking for a seminary and not simply a parish, I would argue in favor of Mater Dei/CMRI rather than MHT.  MHT enforces their theological opinions very forcefully which can result in a certain cookie-cutter formation and division from the greater Church.  Examples aside from those mentioned above are the banning of gothic vestments, the rule against any member of RCI being a Scotist, conditionally confirming those confirmed by a priest in the Eastern Rites (which has always been considered valid,) etc.