Author Topic: Traditional Catholics in 2011 - how should we oppose evil? (Read 1327 times)

Matthew · « **on:** February 05, 2011, 12:39:47 PM »

To oppose evil, or to remain silent?
What is God's Will for Traditional Catholics in 2011?

We have a serious Crisis in the Church today, whereby we can't just go into our local parish and trust the pastor to feed his sheep true Catholic doctrine and morality. We know how defective the Vatican II orientation and the New Mass are by their fruits, primarily. So here we are.

We have a new term, "Traditional Catholic", defined as a serious Catholic who is aware of the Crisis, and who wants to preserve his Catholic Faith, save his soul, and pass on the Catholic Faith to any children he has.

Traditional Catholics are known for being better-educated than most about the Catholic Faith. They read all sorts of Catholic literature -- theology, philosophy, apologetics, Church fathers, Church history, papal encyclicals, biographies of the Saints, spiritual authors, and many other topics.

The big question -- which of the saints' admonitions apply to us today?

Certainly most of them, as human nature doesn't change or evolve as the Modernists pretend.

However, one cannot say that all words uttered by saints of ages past apply in full force to Traditional Catholics in 2011. In short, the world is a very different place today; different than the saints could have ever imagined in their worst nightmares.

Today we have Traditional Catholics scattered all over the world. Some live near a chapel where the Tridentine Mass is offered, while others are not so lucky. Among those who have a pre-Vatican II Mass available, some are blessed with daily Mass, while others are lucky to have Mass available once a month.

Then there's the Catholic education of children. Some families have the wherewithal to home school, others do not. Some live near a Traditional Catholic school, others do not. Among those who live near a traditional Catholic school, only a portion of them send their children there.

Isolation is the norm. Friends, to say nothing of compatible spouses, are difficult to find. The World, with its false doctrines, bad habits, and legions of well-meaning but ignorant people, leaves its mark on all.

Traditional Catholic priests are in short supply. For this reason, some Catholics believe it prudent to multiply ordinations to fill the shortage. Others would rather have a fewer number of good priests. To make matters more complicated, sometimes would-be good priests are frustrated in their vocation because the sins and faults of others. Politics and fallen human nature are alive and well today, as always.

Meanwhile, the World has arranged it so that raising a Catholic family is a very difficult endeavor. It is virtually impossible for many families to survive on one income, regardless of the good will and hard work of the father. With devaluation of our currency, globalization, and other trends, it has become very difficult to raise a Catholic family.

And that's if one can manage to start a family. With all the isolation and small numbers, it is difficult for single Traditional Catholics to find a suitable spouse, one who is not only Catholic but also compatible -- personality, culture, etc.

With all these things in mind, one should consider a few things.

1. Should Traditional Catholics in one catacomb "spread word" to other Traditional Catholics if their priest has serious issues -- touching on the Faith, morality, etc.? After all, some family hundreds of miles away might risk all to move near said priest. In a perfect world, moving around would be easy, but today jobs are hard to come by, people don't have any wealth so selling a home is a bigger deal, etc.

2. Where does "giving fair warning to Catholics" end and petty disagreement begin? After all, what percentage of priests are truly saints? If a given priest is not a saint, that means he has a fault. Impatience, love of food & drink, pride, sloth, aversion to study, anger, cowardice, etc.

I would suggest that when the common good is involved, that is the time to spread the word to our brethren scattered over the four corners of the Earth.

My point in all this -- in the olden days, you had a functioning Church. If Fr. Smith was guilty of some crime, the Church (not the State) would take care of it in Ecclesiastical courts. Today, actual pedophiles are protected, moved around, and kept secret, from the very top of the Roman hierarchy on down. But Traditional Catholics don't have Ecclesiastical courts in the first place.

And the next Tridentine Mass might be 200 miles away, so changing parishes isn't an option in the meantime.

Combine that with the fact that evildoers will use evil means -- isolation, defamation, lies, violence, threats, propaganda, and all manner of cunning to defend their position, income, and standard of living.

What are we Traditional Catholics to do? We're in this together, being members of the same Mystical Body.

Gortan · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2011, 10:36:14 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

Today, actual pedophiles are protected, moved around, and kept secret, from the very top of the Roman hierarchy on down.

The Apostate Ratzinger (a.k.a Antipope Benedict XVI), was ineligible to be a pope in the eyes of the Church as he was a well docuмented manifest heretic before his "pseudo election" which placed him under the condemnation of Pope Paul IV's infallible, cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio.

Prophecy of Marie-Julie Jahenny about this supreme crisis against Peter's Church:

"She (Marie-Julie) frequently announced that the enemies of the Church would penetrate into its bosom and perpetrate horrible scandals and thrust the sword into the heart of the Church. Rage has never been greater. "Marie-Julie Jahenny, The Breton Stigmatist", p. 34

(Solution): Search out the lawful Pope, before a non approbated "latin mass" (sacrilege).

Matthew, the reason you don't hear this correct postion is that the "traditional mass" apostolates won't allow it, as it shuts their door$.

DoubtingThomas · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2011, 10:53:31 AM »

I have one small Idea, a tiny one, but I also have a fever right now.
Tomorrow I'll send you a pm.
Then, if it sounds reasonable, you can share it.
I want to be sure it is not the result of a fever.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2011, 11:56:42 AM »

Quote from: DoubtingThomas

I have one small Idea, a tiny one, but I also have a fever right now.
Tomorrow I'll send you a pm.
Then, if it sounds reasonable, you can share it.
I want to be sure it is not the result of a fever.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:15:43 PM »

Quote from: Gortan

Quote from: Matthew

Today, actual pedophiles are protected, moved around, and kept secret, from the very top of the Roman hierarchy on down.

The Apostate Ratzinger (a.k.a Antipope Benedict XVI), was ineligible to be a pope in the eyes of the Church as he was a well docuмented manifest heretic before his "pseudo election" which placed him under the condemnation of Pope Paul IV's infallible, cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio.

Prophecy of Marie-Julie Jahenny about this supreme crisis against Peter's Church:

"She (Marie-Julie) frequently announced that the enemies of the Church would penetrate into its bosom and perpetrate horrible scandals and thrust the sword into the heart of the Church. Rage has never been greater. "Marie-Julie Jahenny, The Breton Stigmatist", p. 34

(Solution): Search out the lawful Pope, before a non approbated "latin mass" (sacrilege).

Matthew, the reason you don't hear this correct postion is that the "traditional mass" apostolates won't allow it, as it shuts their door$.

Your obsession with your own take on this Crisis is getting a bit annoying.

You say that ALL traditional groups are bogus/not to be associated with, and that the only solution is for all of us to get down on our knees and accept the rule of "pope" Gregory XVII? At which point he will manifest himself (similar to the Antichrist, I suppose) and there will be peace on earth?

Your position is ridiculous. I don't know this "pope" you speak of, he obviously is hiding somewhere -- not the kind of man I'm going to bet my soul's salvation upon.

You're blasting traditionalists in a huge swath. You're saying that all traditional Catholics trying to keep the Faith are somehow culpable or wrong. No, it's YOU that's wrong and/or insane. Hopefully insane, as that would make you less culpable.

Matthew

ColdFusion · « **Reply #5 on:** February 07, 2011, 08:19:41 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

To oppose evil, or to remain silent?
What is God's Will for Traditional Catholics in 2011?

We have a serious Crisis in the Church today, whereby we can't just go into our local parish and trust the pastor to feed his sheep true Catholic doctrine and morality. We know how defective the Vatican II orientation and the New Mass are by their fruits, primarily. So here we are.

We have a new term, "Traditional Catholic", defined as a serious Catholic who is aware of the Crisis, and who wants to preserve his Catholic Faith, save his soul, and pass on the Catholic Faith to any children he has.

Traditional Catholics are known for being better-educated than most about the Catholic Faith. They read all sorts of Catholic literature -- theology, philosophy, apologetics, Church fathers, Church history, papal encyclicals, biographies of the Saints, spiritual authors, and many other topics.

The big question -- which of the saints' admonitions apply to us today?

Certainly most of them, as human nature doesn't change or evolve as the Modernists pretend.

However, one cannot say that all words uttered by saints of ages past apply in full force to Traditional Catholics in 2011. In short, the world is a very different place today; different than the saints could have ever imagined in their worst nightmares.

Today we have Traditional Catholics scattered all over the world. Some live near a chapel where the Tridentine Mass is offered, while others are not so lucky. Among those who have a pre-Vatican II Mass available, some are blessed with daily Mass, while others are lucky to have Mass available once a month.

Then there's the Catholic education of children. Some families have the wherewithal to home school, others do not. Some live near a Traditional Catholic school, others do not. Among those who live near a traditional Catholic school, only a portion of them send their children there.

Isolation is the norm. Friends, to say nothing of compatible spouses, are difficult to find. The World, with its false doctrines, bad habits, and legions of well-meaning but ignorant people, leaves its mark on all.

Traditional Catholic priests are in short supply. For this reason, some Catholics believe it prudent to multiply ordinations to fill the shortage. Others would rather have a fewer number of good priests. To make matters more complicated, sometimes would-be good priests are frustrated in their vocation because the sins and faults of others. Politics and fallen human nature are alive and well today, as always.

Meanwhile, the World has arranged it so that raising a Catholic family is a very difficult endeavor. It is virtually impossible for many families to survive on one income, regardless of the good will and hard work of the father. With devaluation of our currency, globalization, and other trends, it has become very difficult to raise a Catholic family.

And that's if one can manage to start a family. With all the isolation and small numbers, it is difficult for single Traditional Catholics to find a suitable spouse, one who is not only Catholic but also compatible -- personality, culture, etc.

With all these things in mind, one should consider a few things.

1. Should Traditional Catholics in one catacomb "spread word" to other Traditional Catholics if their priest has serious issues -- touching on the Faith, morality, etc.? After all, some family hundreds of miles away might risk all to move near said priest. In a perfect world, moving around would be easy, but today jobs are hard to come by, people don't have any wealth so selling a home is a bigger deal, etc.

2. Where does "giving fair warning to Catholics" end and petty disagreement begin? After all, what percentage of priests are truly saints? If a given priest is not a saint, that means he has a fault. Impatience, love of food & drink, pride, sloth, aversion to study, anger, cowardice, etc.

I would suggest that when the common good is involved, that is the time to spread the word to our brethren scattered over the four corners of the Earth.

My point in all this -- in the olden days, you had a functioning Church. If Fr. Smith was guilty of some crime, the Church (not the State) would take care of it in Ecclesiastical courts. Today, actual pedophiles are protected, moved around, and kept secret, from the very top of the Roman hierarchy on down. But Traditional Catholics don't have Ecclesiastical courts in the first place.

And the next Tridentine Mass might be 200 miles away, so changing parishes isn't an option in the meantime.

Combine that with the fact that evildoers will use evil means -- isolation, defamation, lies, violence, threats, propaganda, and all manner of cunning to defend their position, income, and standard of living.

What are we Traditional Catholics to do? We're in this together, being members of the same Mystical Body.

Extremely well put.

I am of the belief that priests are deserving of the highest respect and should always be given the benefit of the doubt; however, the saints were speaking of men who had a hierarchy to which they must answer, as you mentioned.

The respect due their office is owing to the fact that these men live their lives to save our souls, and that respect is owing even if the priest has a repugnant personality. In the SGG instance, the distinction lies (for me, anyway) in the fact that these priests made a public attempt to destroy people; they actively engaged in character assasination. The accusations themselves were not what convinced me that these individuals were mentally ill, but their reactions.

I would say they are reaping what they have sown, except what they have sown is far, far worse. They have been expelled and renounced their commitments to several organizations, and have a terrible reputation for all types of impropriety. I do not believe that I owe them any more respect than any other disgraced priest.

copticruiser · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2011, 04:46:27 PM »

To oppose evil, or to remain silent?
What is God's Will for Traditional Catholics in 2011?

Speaking truth I just learned again recently is painful especially when dealing with loved ones. As Catholics we have no choice but to speak with charity about issues that endanger the souls of our loved ones.

I would not sit around and watch my 2 year old run off the dock and into the lake without intervening. Neither will I laugh, keep silent at the horrible quite often mortal sins that are played before my eyes on a daily basis.

How are we to be the light of the world if we are apart of the darkness? I dont care if you hate me afterwards but maybe the truth I speak which is Christs may penetrate your heart and change your actions. We are so immersed in sin and immorality society has embraced it with open arms and peoples eyes are blind to Gods truth.

This is a waging war we are in and the battles are fierce all I can give our Lord is myself in his service. Does our Lord not say that the harvest is plenty but the reapers are few?

I find traditional catholics are strong, are firm in their faith and people recognize and are attracted to it or they fear it and run. We have so many heads up from Heaven we know the turn of events, we know the times we live in. Just gottta ride the storm with Mary by our side.