I read this post, and I want to make a point that I think deserves its own thread.

Quote from: Emerentiana

If we cant say anythin about the clergy thats good and positive, lets all keep silence...........and let this thread die!

How does this apply to commentary on BXVI, or those clergy from V2 forward, many of whom we have hammered freely and justifiably?

It would seem that you simply advocate adopting the principle that others once used to browbeat the sheep into submission in the face of serious problems.

Honestly, WAY too many of those who used their brains to wade through the endless nonsense of V2, etc., in order to get to Traddieland just turn off their brains once they arrive.  No wonder such immense havoc is wrought so easily amongst us.

People, it is an ABSOLUTE GIVEN that wolves in shepherds' clothing have found their way into the Trad fold.  While this does not mean we must tar and feather all of them, for Pete's sake, be on your guard to a somewhat-reasonable degree.

When Gladius said that, I couldn't help but thinking that I've said the EXACT OPPOSITE more or less, in a different context.

I think I was referring to how some Traditional Catholics can't seem to lay down their guard AT ALL or trust anymore.

I basically said that once we've escaped from the hell of Vatican II where MOST priests are poorly formed, most parishioners don't act or believe in a Catholic manner, etc.  that once we get to Tradition we SHOULD RELAX a bit.

We shouldn't act as if traditional priests are what destroyed the Church, because they haven't. They aren't responsible for our betrayal by the V2 hierarchy. In fact, they have all given up a lot to help us save our souls. They never betrayed our trust. But we're tempted to put ALL priests in the same lump category, which I believe is wrong.

I might advise to "be careful" but not be paranoid -- we do need to make sure we're not just seeing things that aren't there -- saying something negative (even if it's true) about a priest or bishop is a HUGE step and we mustn't lose sight of that, even if the majority of priests in the Novus Ordo are not praiseworthy due to ignorance or weakness. Generally speaking, the rule of thumb is to be hard on ourselves, and make excuses for others. Unless one is in the position of authority, or the general good demands it.

That's another thing about traditionalists -- some of them imply that every member of the Novus Ordo Catholic Church is part of some conspiracy to destroy the Church. Yes, a few bishops and cardinals are Masons, and the men who started all this mess certainly knew what they were doing. But every priest, every layman? I doubt it. I think many of them are proud to be a member of what they were taught is the One True Church. After all, what is the One True Church called?  The Catholic Church.

My mother-in-law goes to her local parish -- it says right on the sign, "Immaculate Conception Catholic Church". So she is somewhat justified that at least it APPEARS she's a member of that one true Church, and has the one true Faith. Now whether that's true or not is open for debate, and touches on things we can't know for sure like the "good will" of the soul in question. I don't see how we can discuss that either, since we can't know for sure what's inside a person's soul. Do they suspect something is wrong? Have they rejected the Truth? Only God knows.


Matthew

I think I was referring to how some Traditional Catholics can't seem to lay down their guard AT ALL or trust anymore.

My experience with most trads, seems to be that when they finally get to Traddie land, they relax with those whose hands they fall into- good or bad. From there, everyone who is out side the group they've joined (SSPX, CMRI, etc.) is somehow a bad guy, or not-as-good as my priest/group guy; and negativity spreads from there.

Unreasonable and rash suspicions that many trads exhibit do not fall into the same category as manifest errors and problems that have no excuse.  You accused me of being overly suspicious when I mentioned that it had been related that a trad priest told a young unmarried woman that she should have avoided pregnancy using contraception.  My point was simply is that there are hypocritical trad priests (not just weak, tepid or sinful, but teachers of immorality) who must not be allowed to establish themselves (or maintain themselves) as authorities.  That requires the lay people forming their own "inquisition" or "vehm" to root out the scoundrels.

The traditional Catholic movement can be subverted.  However much trust we might have placed in trad priests in the beginning, ignoring the signs of sellout is liable to be fatal.

Something along the lines of the organization of lay people St. Pius X established to report on modernist priests is needed.

FWIW, Traddieland has a total of ZERO priests or bishops with actual authority.  NONE of them holds an actual office.

GV- unfortunately its not worth much, in my humble opinion, my friend. Most in traddie-land aren't concerned with this. Should they be? I don't know. I think Traddie-Joe and Jane aren't, nor should they be, very concerned with this. Focusing on getting over getting over to tradition is an ordeal in itself. Then you have lifestyle, family, and other changes you have to deal with; big decisions and trials to overcome. Worrying about if my SSPX priest (or whoever) has authority/ office doesn't concern me; at least not as much as something like validity, which seems to be more directly related to coming over to the jedi-force from the dark side.   :light-saber:

These are just my thoughts (yes I am simple and ignorant, don't get too upset reading them  :wink:)

I might advise to "be careful" but not be paranoid -- we do need to make sure we're not just seeing things that aren't there --


It is so easy to be paranoid especially when there is no physical support in your area. In our case we rely on conversing within our own family, watching informative dvds, cds etc Otherwise what we see in our local community is sooo hard on the EYES and the HEART.

Our young children now refer to Catholics as  "New Order" or "Traditional" they know already. It truly feels like we are surronded by some sort of lemmings and some of them are even in Evangelical Ministry and yet when we converse with them and show them good hard facts ( like the council of trent) they just dont get it.

I was orthodox gone traditional catholic apart of the new catholic for awhile but now 100% traditional catholic with appreciation for my orthodox roots and saints.

Its an uphill battle and only Gods Grace can sustain us through this difficult time.

My thoughts!!!  Annie