Author Topic: Tradition Is Doomed (Read 903 times)

stevusmagnus · « **on:** April 18, 2010, 05:36:02 PM »

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Are the extreme and erroneous views offered by many on this forum truly representative of the beliefs held by the majority of individuals in the USA who identify themselves as "traditionally-minded Catholics?"

I really don't know if they are or not but I would like to hear other peoples' views. Let me offer a bit more information to elucidate and a prediction if the extreme and erroneous views offered on this forum are truly representative of the beliefs held my individuals in the USA who identify themselves as "traditionally-minded Catholics."

First, when I talk about "extreme and erroneous views" I am talking about those views which directly and objectively contravene what the Catholic Church actually directs. Views like the EF is intrinsically better than OF; CIH is always bad/evil; the OF is "sacrilegious" or an "abomination"; female altar servers is always bad/evil; receiving communion while standing is bad/evil; receiving communion while standing is always better; guitars, pianos and violins are bad/evil, etc. etc.

Second if such extreme and erroneous views are indeed the norm for those who identity as "traditionally-minded Catholics" (and I'm not saying they are), then the "traditionalist movement" (whatever that really is) doesn't have a chance in the USA of ever gaining any real traction. Sure we'll see tiny, remote pockets of traditionalism (which will really be nothing more than cafeteria catholicism or fundamentalist catholicism depending on whom you are discussing), but nothing that will ever fundamentally change the Church at least in the USA.

It would also give insight as to why those who ardently disagree with the people who hold the views listed above have made such inroads into the Church particularly within the liturgy.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #1 on:** April 18, 2010, 05:38:10 PM »

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In my estimation: yes.

This is from someone who spent seven years as a so-called "traditionalist Catholic" (personally, I abhor the term as a redudancy, since any Catholic is definitionally traditionalist). During those years I had the opportunity to get to know quite a few of them on a personal level. But this would only account for so small a sampling as to be negligible.

Perhaps a better way to find out, though, might be to visit several of any of the numerous "traditionalist" sites on the internet. The poster above me provided a link to Fisheaters, and you can probably find your answer by reading some of the articles there. This one probably sums up more or less what most people self-identifying as "traditionalist" agree with.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #2 on:** April 18, 2010, 05:40:43 PM »

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I had to chuckle when I read "Ottaviani Intervention." The bible of the fundamentalist "catholics."

I wouldn't go near a forum like "fisheaters" ever again. Most who post there are in no way Catholic -- I wouldn't need to pose this question on fisheaters as I already know the answer for that on-line forum. In essence, most there (with some real notable exceptions) are such cafeteria catholics they're seemingly no longer Catholic in their views. They've come full circle. Their views are more fundamentalist Protestant ("what I say goes") than anything.

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 18, 2010, 06:19:17 PM »

I wonder how many of your type will actually make it
to Heaven. Tradition lives, and is thriving in all
Faithful Catholics. They may be small, but they are
growing because they have the Faith.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #4 on:** April 18, 2010, 06:32:46 PM »

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This is from someone who spent seven years as a so-called "traditionalist Catholic" (personally, I abhor the term as a redudancy, since any Catholic is definitionally traditionalist).

Ah, pseudo-intellectualism! Apparently, this bloke is not paying too much attention to what the Vatican has spewed forth for over four decades now...as it is decidedly novel (or has no idea about what things were like before V2, or just cannot think very clearly, etc). What was he doing for those seven years? He clearly learned nothing -- except to despise those with whom he has come to disagree, for whatever reason.

He "chuckles" when he merely reads the OI? HeL-Lo-O, McFly! You clearly have an ax to grind, and are quite glad with yourself for grinding it.

Does the following come from the chap who is "definitionally traditional"?

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First, when I talk about "extreme and erroneous views" I am talking about those views which directly and objectively contravene what the Catholic Church actually directs. Views like the EF is intrinsically better than OF; CIH is always bad/evil; the OF is "sacrilegious" or an "abomination"; female altar servers is always bad/evil; receiving communion while standing is bad/evil; receiving communion while standing is always better; guitars, pianos and violins are bad/evil, etc. etc.

If he agrees /has no problem with these things that he is here presenting as examples of "extreme views", then he is hardly traditional, definitionally or otherwise -- but is merely full of sh*t and far too arrogant to see it.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #5 on:** April 18, 2010, 06:35:41 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

but is merely full of sh*t and far too arrogant to see it.

I vote for this option...

Alexandria · « **Reply #6 on:** April 19, 2010, 11:33:20 AM »

I always think that I am beyond being shocked anymore...then I read the above nonsense and, well, I'm shocked! Is this from the infamous CAF? Typical arrogance, smugness and, what they love to accuse us of, "holier-than-thou" attitude.

Pious frauds, one and all.

Ottaviani Intervention, our fundamentalist bible???

Unbelievable!

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 19, 2010, 12:16:03 PM »

Quote from: Alexandria

I always think that I am beyond being shocked anymore...then I read the above nonsense and, well, I'm shocked! Is this from the infamous CAF? Typical arrogance, smugness and, what they love to accuse us of, "holier-than-thou" attitude.

Pious frauds, one and all.

Ottaviani Intervention, our fundamentalist bible???

Unbelievable!

You said it all Alexandria.