Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Todd The Trad on November 27, 2021, 09:55:54 PM
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So, there's a new term I've run into...“tradismatic.” :facepalm: I came across a youtube video tonight called "Traditional Catholics vs. Charismatic Catholics w/ Fr. Mark Goring". I'll put the video at the end of my post. Check out some of the comments from the video. I... can't...even :laugh1:
"I love this! I’m a traditional Catholic, but I speak charismatically. I guess call me “tradismatic.”'
"I consider have been considering myself a tradismatic for quite a few years and I do think the church will grow if we keep the 2 together to form a solid foundation instead of opposing the 2. They go together. Praise the Lord for this introduction as faithful Catholics can be united to practice the one and only true faith."
(This is for Xavier regarding the growth of Catholicism in Africa) "In Africa, the Catholic Charismatic renewal is the main driver of growth in the Catholic church. The Catholic Charismatic renewal are more enriching and more active. Those sound in traditional Catholic teachings don't derail when they become Charismatic. I was a Catholic Charismatic renewal member for many years in Nigeria."
"I’m a charismatic catholic AND a traditionalist. The trad part came later after I did an Alpha course. What happened when they prayed over me at the Weekend Away at Alpha was that the Holy Spirit came down on me like a ton of bricks....far more powerfully than when I was originally baptized in the Holy Spirit."
"Why can't we just take the benefits of both? I was set on fire by the Charasmatic movement, but as I grow deeper with that, I also have grown a deeper love for a traditional mass with communion rails and chant. It isn't an either or question. You can do both."
"LOVE IT!! TRADISMATIC movement! I am a very traditional Catholic and very much into the Holy Spirit."
"I believe in the power of the Holy Spirit, I feel His fire and power, I have receive Gifts from Him. For me the perfect match is to be a TRADISMATIC."
If you want to read more of this ridiculousness, check out all of the comments :facepalm:
Traditional Catholics vs. Charismatic Catholics w/ Fr. Mark Goring - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QVVli4lafM)
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If souls wish to truly love the Holy Ghost, then they ought to stick to the orthodox devotions to Him, instead of borrowing from the depraved ideas of Protestant heretics.
Here is a webpage that contains many such beautiful prayers: http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/Prayers%20and%20Devotions%20to%20the%20Holy%20Ghost.html (http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/Prayers and Devotions to the Holy Ghost.html)
Great playlist from Ascent of Mount Carmel on YT concerning the errors and history of the Charismatic movement:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB9wsq--mkdMoFrQ0TUoqU3zjovFsda1S
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We all received the seven gifts of the Holy Ghost at confirmation. It is sufficient to use those gifts, rather than seeking sensible consolations.
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If souls wish to truly love the Holy Ghost, then they ought to stick to the orthodox devotions to Him, instead of borrowing from the depraved ideas of Protestant heretics.
Here is a webpage that contains many such beautiful prayers: http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/Prayers%20and%20Devotions%20to%20the%20Holy%20Ghost.html (http://catholicharboroffaithandmorals.com/Prayers and Devotions to the Holy Ghost.html)
Great playlist from Ascent of Mount Carmel on YT concerning the errors and history of the Charismatic movement:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB9wsq--mkdMoFrQ0TUoqU3zjovFsda1S
Great links!
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We all received the seven gifts of the Holy Ghost at confirmation. It is sufficient to use those gifts, rather than seeking sensible consolations.
I agree. This outpouring of the Holy Ghost they talk about knocking their socks off on retreats and stuff sounds suspicious to me. Much too dependent on feelings. This movement seems to me to be a constant chasing after sensible consolations. I don't know anything from firsthand experience, but some of this stuff almost sounds like demonic trickery to me.
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Poor Father Goring. I like him and believe he is earnest but just needs to do more research and has been misled like soooo many others.
There but for the grace of God go I.
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We all received the seven gifts of the Holy Ghost at confirmation. It is sufficient to use those gifts, rather than seeking sensible consolations.
Excellent point. One of the videos in the playlist touches on how, in a similar way, the sacraments instituted by Christ are enough and argues against the Charismatic perspective of this assumed need for a "baptism of the Holy Spirit":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSooG0bMrLo&list=PLB9wsq--mkdMoFrQ0TUoqU3zjovFsda1S&index=3
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Great links!
You're welcome! A gift shared is a gift twice received.
I agree. This outpouring of the Holy Ghost they talk about knocking their socks off on retreats and stuff sounds suspicious to me. Much too dependent on feelings. This movement seems to me to be a constant chasing after sensible consolations. I don't know anything from firsthand experience, but some of this stuff almost sounds like demonic trickery to me.
Yeah, that's my impression too. Fr. Goring isn't all bad, he just needs to get away from this stuff and stick to sensible devotions and approved apparitions, along with solid Catholic doctrine. Without prayer, none of that will happen.
In this clip below, Bishop Williamson talks about how the Charismatic movement does so well in terms of numbers in the NO Church because it fully embraces the "spirit of Vatican II" (Modernism):
https://odysee.com/@PromotorFidei:d/Bishop-Williamson-exposes-the-New-Religion-(2019):6
And as the good Bishop says, stay away from spiritual "chocolate"!
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I know one Indult-type priest who I actually respect. He started out a religious Brother interested in Tradition, traditional ways/morals, Chant, the Tridentine Mass. He studied (including in Rome) and became a priest. He is of Italian heritage, and very intelligent. I met him a couple years ago, and he impressed me. Even though we are in two different "camps", he still has my respect and he seems to be a holy priest of good will. Maybe it's because he was unwilling or non-inclined to condemn those in, say, the Resistance? He knew about the local Resistance chapel I attend, believe it or not. There was not a hint of criticism when he talked. But you could tell he lived a deep and real spiritual life, lacking neither prayer nor mortification. I was edified.
But as for Catholics being charismatic, this priest has completely left behind his mistakes from 17 years ago, where he dabbled in speaking in tongues and the charismatic movement. He has matured and apparently God has shown him the error of that path.
I wonder what he'd say about that video (above).
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Charismatics actually believe in the supernatural. They are much better than normie Catholics. Even though it seems strange when they lift up their arms and bark like dogs after the consecration, it shows that they really believe in the real presence.
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This entire "charistmatic" movement comes from being "bored" with ORDINARY Catholicism. God works for most people in their ordinary circuмstances, their day to day lives. But these are the generation always seeking a "sign" that Our Lord rebuked. I get up every day and perform my duties of state to the best of my ability. I pray. I receive the Sacraments. But these people find that "boring" and "uninspiring". Chances are that when the novelty of charismatism wears off, they'll just move on to the next thing ... very possibly outside the Church. But we see in the history of the saints that they often grew the MOST in holiness during their periods of "dryness" ... where they had almost no emotional incentive to keep going. It is precisely then that they have to drag themselves along by their sheer will and their sheer faith and intellect (when the reasons don't seem persuasive any more to their minds) ... it is then that their will and their intellect become the strongest, and that is true holiness. True holiness is in the will and the intellect, and not in the lower / emotional faculties.
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Tradismatic?! :confused: What an oxymoron! :facepalm:
The Charismatic movement in the Church started around the late 60s/early 70s just when the Vatican II changes started destroying the Latin Mass. I don't understand how one can be both. Sounds very confusing to me.
Could they be confusing the virtue of ZEAL with ''charismatic feelings''?
Of course, ''zeal'' would probably sound too old-fashioned to them and these confused people NEED a catch-phrase.
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In the 80's there was not one charismatic group that I was involved with that acknowledged our Lady in any way- that included groups organized by religious.
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I know one Indult-type priest who I actually respect. He started out a religious Brother interested in Tradition, traditional ways/morals, Chant, the Tridentine Mass. He studied (including in Rome) and became a priest. He is of Italian heritage, and very intelligent. I met him a couple years ago, and he impressed me. Even though we are in two different "camps", he still has my respect and he seems to be a holy priest of good will. Maybe it's because he was unwilling or non-inclined to condemn those in, say, the Resistance? He knew about the local Resistance chapel I attend, believe it or not. There was not a hint of criticism when he talked. But you could tell he lived a deep and real spiritual life, lacking neither prayer nor mortification. I was edified.
But as for Catholics being charismatic, this priest has completely left behind his mistakes from 17 years ago, where he dabbled in speaking in tongues and the charismatic movement. He has matured and apparently God has shown him the error of that path.
I wonder what he'd say about that video (above).
There are priests like that. The pastor of the parish whose school my son attended was very liberal, but he knew all about my traditionalist sympathies, and it was never an issue. He never disrespected me over it, never tried to talk me out of it, it was never the slightest problem. It can happen.
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Reminds me of the "Bass-O-Matic".
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/de/38/a1/de38a1fb50dc7504c8c0cc04a06fd45c.jpg)
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Charismatic practice goes right in the face of what St. John of the Cross, and others, said you SHOULD NOT do when it comes to locutions.
3. There is always ground for fear that they proceed from the devil rather than from God; for the devil has more influence in that which is exterior and corporeal, and can more easily deceive us therein than in what is more interior. And these bodily forms and objects, the more exterior they are, the less do they profit the interior spiritual man, by reason of the great distance and disproportion subsisting between the corporeal and the spiritual. For, although these things communicate some spirituality, as is always the case when they proceed from God, yet it is much less than it would have been, had they been more spiritual and interior; and thus they become more easily and readily occasions of error, presumption, and vanity. As they are so palpable and so material they excite the senses greatly, and the soul is led to consider them the more important, the more they are felt. It runs after them and abandons the secure guidance of faith, thinking that the light they give is a guide and means to that which it desires, union with God. Thus the soul, the more it makes of such things, the more it strays from the perfect way and means, that is, the faith. Besides, when the soul perceives itself subject to these extraordinary visitations, self-esteem very frequently enters in, and it thinks itself to be some thing in the eyes of God, which is contrary to humility. The devil also knows too well how to insinuate into the soul a secret, and sometimes an open, self-satisfaction. For this end he frequently presents to the eyes the forms of saints, and most beautiful lights; he causes voices well dissembled to strike the ear, and delicious odours the smell; he produces sweetness in the mouth, and thrills of pleasure in the sense of touch; and all to make us long for such things that he may lead us astray into much evil.
-St. John of the Cross, Ascent of Mt. Carmel, ch. XI
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https://www.firstthings.com/article/2022/03/tradismatic-trentecostalism
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https://www.firstthings.com/article/2022/03/tradismatic-trentecostalism
They are sending people who are trying to lead truly Catholic lives right back into the spiritual gutter with this stuff. :facepalm:
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Charismatics actually believe in the supernatural. They are much better than normie Catholics. Even though it seems strange when they lift up their arms and bark like dogs after the consecration, it shows that they really believe in the real presence.
Yes, they do believe in the supernatural. But then so do New-Agers. Barking like dogs after the consecration is not normal. Far from it.