Author Topic: Trad-cumenism, the dog that won't hunt  (Read 334 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Trad-cumenism, the dog that won't hunt
« on: June 24, 2017, 11:28:04 AM »
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  • BumphreyHogart was recently banned for, among other reasons, calling me trad-cumenical.

    That is a ridiculous charge, which evinces a dogmatic sectarianism that is not welcome on CathInfo.

    What does Trad-cumenical mean? Can we get a definition? I almost wish we had someone here who uses the term, so we could get an "official" definition. But I'll have to manage by myself.

    First of all, we have "ecumenical" which in Trad circles refers to the FALSE ecumenism of Vatican II. Basically it is the error that all religions are equal, all religions can save, or that the Catholic Church is not exclusive. Some false ecumenists might hold that the Catholic Church is the BEST Church, but not that it is the only Church. False ecumenists believe that there's more than one way to skin a cat, when it comes to getting to heaven.

    I will attempt to define Trad-cumenical:

    The belief that one Trad position is as good as another.

    First of all, I don't hold that belief. I believe that God DOES has a favorite, but we humans can't arrive at the knowledge of that favorite with anything approaching certainty. Agnostics believe this about the True Church. I believe this about "What is God's Favorite Trad Group?"

    Man can discover and know that the Catholic Faith is the True Religion. God has pointed out His will in regards to religion by means of Revelation (Jesus Christ and the Church He founded, and Scripture).

    God has given NO revelation with regards to post-Vatican II lifeboats (the Traditional Movement). No group can claim divine exclusivity, divine favor, or anything similar. Certainly nothing which would BIND or COMPEL OTHERS to adhere to their position or group.

    When it comes to picking the best Trad group/position, everything is up-for-grabs. We are left to our own devices with nothing (save our own fallible human intellect, and our equally fallible virtue of Prudence) to guide us.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Trad-cumenism, the dog that won't hunt
    « Reply #1 on: June 24, 2017, 11:35:27 AM »
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  • P.S. There is such a thing as MORAL certainty. In other words, "good enough for me". Lots of people are firmly convinced that their group is the "way to go" with regards to Tradition. Nevertheless, they can't bind others to their own prudential decisions. They can't force the conscience of others, let alone condemn (or resign) them to hell as "outside the Church".

    I'm happy for many of you that you are personally convinced. But that doesn't equate to "we have One True Trad Position" the same way we claim there is "One True Church". Because we don't. There are many, they compete with each other (and some are mutually exclusive) and it's quite chaotic. God has yet to step in and intervene.

    So, in conclusion, you can only mock "trad-cumenism" if you can hold that there is "One True Trad Position" in the same way that there is "One True Church".  Not just that both exist, but that both can be known with the certainty of Faith.
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: Trad-cumenism, the dog that won't hunt
    « Reply #2 on: June 24, 2017, 12:29:41 PM »
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  • Since I for one have not seen nor read how the term was used against you, it is impossible for me to decern in what context the term was used. 

    I am sorry he was banned, he was a true defender of the Faith.  

    In my humble opinion, I see a lot of people that should be banned not for shouting out terms against you, but to the sedevacantist who post here.  Yet, if we want to continue we just have to grin and bear it.  Which I must admit becomes easier and easier for myself, I have grown accustomed to your face, as the song goes.  ♫♫   

     

    Offline Croixalist

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    Re: Trad-cumenism, the dog that won't hunt
    « Reply #3 on: June 24, 2017, 01:11:04 PM »
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  • Good posts! It's one of the most important realizations the laity can have right now. The Crisis wouldn't be the Crisis without the urge to exercise some sort of dogmatic authority which does not belong to us. It starts out well enough; we want to defend the Church, we want to strengthen the things that remain, to preserve the Mass of all time. We might agree on the right course of action for the most part but as the forums clearly indicate, the small percentage of views we do not share loom larger than almost anything else. I'm trying to save my energy for the fights that really count. The many great internal Trad debates will burn like underground coal fires until the Barque of Peter rights itself, repairs those leaks, and sorts these things out. We can try to persevere from the bottom-up, but we need a top-down miracle.

    There are no comfortable places to be anymore. Nettles will remain until the Lord deems fit to remove them, until then I feel I'd only be adding to the spikes if I exasperate myself (and others) needlessly in the process. This is the time when God rewards us according to the hidden faces we've given Him and for those stuck with their tongues sticking out, don't be surprised if you fall under the spell of a Pied Pfeiffer.
    Fortuna finem habet.


     

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