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Author Topic: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!  (Read 46970 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
« Reply #165 on: November 11, 2019, 08:23:28 AM »
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    • This is a huge problem for Siscoe and Salza and their followers.

    What happens if a group of bishops intends to convene a General Council, and the heretic Pope instantly deposes every single one of the bishops who has agreed to hold such a Council?

    You could argue, "oh, well, that would be unjust."  No, sorry, there's nothing "unjust" about the Pope replacing a bishop.  He's not excommunicating them, just replacing them.  He could replace a bishop because he doesn't like his body odor, for any reason, or for no reason, since they serve entirely at his pleasure.  If, as per Siscoe and Salza, this man continues to hold authority, then the bishops' authority derives entirely from his appointment of them ... and he has ever right and ability to replace them, for any reason.

    This is an absolute check-mate against Siscoe and Salza.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #166 on: November 11, 2019, 08:24:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on November 11, 2019, 05:11:20 AM
    How can we ever determine a legitimate deposing council from a schismatic one, except by private interpretation? Normally we rely on the pope's assent to know whether a general council is valid or not, but obviously that won't work in this scenario.

    Good question. It is a conundrum. I don't think that the Pope's assent is required, since he will be the one on trial, so to speak. But putting together a Council with the current Modernist hierarchy would be a problem. But it's not impossible. John of St. Thomas gave his opinion on how to best deal with a heretical Pope. He didn't foresee the problems we have today, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore what he wrote. His views are quite reasonable and Catholic. He wasn't extreme.

    It seems hopeless in human terms, if we only think that there has to be a human solution.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #167 on: November 11, 2019, 08:26:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on November 11, 2019, 08:24:46 AM
    Good question. It is a conundrum.

    Exactly, it's a conundrum that destroys the General Council theory ... as per my previous posts.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #168 on: November 11, 2019, 08:27:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 11, 2019, 08:26:11 AM
    Exactly, it's a conundrum that destroys the General Council theory ... as per my previous posts.

    You are not the foremost authority on how to deal with a heretical Pope. You just THINK that you are. 

    I'll stick with those who are not extremists.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #169 on: November 11, 2019, 08:35:45 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on November 11, 2019, 08:24:46 AM
    Good question. It is a conundrum. I don't think that the Pope's assent is required, since he will be the one on trial, so to speak. But putting together a Council with the current Modernist hierarchy would be a problem. But it's not impossible. John of St. Thomas gave his opinion on how to best deal with a heretical Pope. He didn't foresee the problems we have today, but that doesn't mean that we should ignore what he wrote. His views are quite reasonable and Catholic. He wasn't extreme.

    It seems hopeless in human terms, if we only think that there has to be a human solution.
    Well clearly the pope's assent is not required if the pope is a heretic, but how can we objectively tell a group of bishops falsely deposing a true pope in an invalid and schismatic council from a group of bishops deposing a heretical pope in a legitimate and valid general council? I don't think there is any objective way to tell, you'd have to rely on your private interpretation("do I believe the bishops trying to depose the pope, or do I believe the pope and the bishops who support him?"). And relying on private interpretation is a recipe for disaster. 
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #170 on: November 11, 2019, 08:38:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on November 11, 2019, 08:35:45 AM
    Well clearly the pope's assent is not required if the pope is a heretic, but how can we objectively tell a group of bishops falsely deposing a true pope in an invalid and schismatic council from a group of bishops deposing a heretical pope in a legitimate and valid general council? I don't think there is any objective way to tell, you'd have to rely on your private interpretation("do I believe the bishops trying to depose the pope, or do I believe the pope and the bishops who support him?"). And relying on private interpretation is a recipe for disaster.

    I suppose we could tell from what the outcome would be. That would be one way, maybe. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #171 on: November 11, 2019, 08:39:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on November 11, 2019, 08:27:28 AM
    You are not the foremost authority on how to deal with a heretical Pope. You just THINK that you are.

    I'll stick with those who are not extremists.

    What does that even mean?  Nobody here is, and even the official theologians who dealt with this issue couldn't agree.  Address the argument or hold your tongue.  That is absolutely typical of you.  When you have no answer to an argument, you start in on the personal attacks.

    Even YOU admitted the "conundrum" ... but your only answer was that John of St. Thomas couldn't foresee this crisis.  That matters little.  Principles are always tested against hypothetical circuŠ¼stances to determine their validity.  General Council theory fails the smell test.

    FORMAL-MATERIAL theory is the only thing that passes the test.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #172 on: November 11, 2019, 08:39:45 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on November 11, 2019, 08:38:31 AM
    I suppose we could tell from what the outcome would be. That would be one way, maybe.

    So you could tell based on your own private judgment.  Fail.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #173 on: November 11, 2019, 08:42:05 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on November 11, 2019, 08:35:45 AM
    Well clearly the pope's assent is not required if the pope is a heretic, ...

    But that is false according to Siscoe and Salza theory.  Until he's DECLARED to be a heretic by the Council, he's not a heretic ... regardless of how heretical he looks, smells, walks, talks, or quacks.  And that is utterly absurd.

    So until he's declared a heretic, he retains papal authority.  He could shut down any prospective General Council, or, as I mentioned, instantly depose any bishop who intends to participate in one.  There's nothing in Siscoe and Salza theory to prevent this.  So it's epic fail.
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #174 on: November 11, 2019, 08:43:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on November 11, 2019, 08:27:28 AM
    You are not the foremost authority on how to deal with a heretical Pope. You just THINK that you are.

    I'll stick with those who are not extremists.
    Forget about the man; deal with his arguments. You deal with a disputed issue with rational disputation.
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #175 on: November 11, 2019, 08:45:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 11, 2019, 08:39:45 AM
    So you could tell based on your own private judgment.  Fail.

    If a heretical Pope (like Francis) would be deposed by a Council, I would indeed be able to see it with my own eyes. It would be the best outcome, based on what John of St. Thomas wrote.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #176 on: November 11, 2019, 08:47:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on November 11, 2019, 08:43:46 AM
    Forget about the man; deal with his arguments. You deal with a disputed issue with rational disputation.

    I never said that the issue is undisputed. I never said that John of St. Thomas has the last word on the subject. John of St. Thomas is not extreme, and his views are very reasonable. They make sense to me.

    I try to not deal with extremists like Ladislaus, who also tends to be very vindictive.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #177 on: November 11, 2019, 08:50:18 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 11, 2019, 08:39:15 AM



    FORMAL-MATERIAL theory is the only thing that passes the test.

    It certainly seems to utilize all the principles and facts on the table in a coherent way that avoids contradiction
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #178 on: November 11, 2019, 08:53:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 11, 2019, 08:16:51 AM
    Look, Bergoglio is obviously a heretic.  Amor Laetitia is in fact clear-cut heresy.  Even several Cardinals came out and said as much.

    But because 99% of the Novus Ordo is infested with heretics, or cowards, or lazy men ... NOTHING WILL EVER BE DONE ABOUT IT.

    So a heretic pope like Bergoglio could continue to exercise papal authority INDEFINITELY ... since nothing will be done about it.
    The devout laity, monastics, Priests, and a small handful of true Bishops are the Church because where the Bishop is there is the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic faith. As long as one true Bishop can consecrate other Bishops and Priests, the True Church will continue. This will most likely be what will happen in the End Times, and many priests are convinced that we are in the End Times.
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    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Maria Regina

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    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #179 on: November 11, 2019, 09:00:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 11, 2019, 08:42:05 AM
    But that is false according to Siscoe and Salza theory.  Until he's DECLARED to be a heretic by the Council, he's not a heretic ... regardless of how heretical he looks, smells, walks, talks, or quacks.  And that is utterly absurd.

    So until he's declared a heretic, he retains papal authority.  He could shut down any prospective General Council, or, as I mentioned, instantly depose any bishop who intends to participate in one.  There's nothing in Siscoe and Salza theory to prevent this.  So it's epic fail.
    If Francis looks like a heretic, talks like a heretic, and walks like a heretic, then he must be a heretical duck. Francis hides his papal cross when in the presence of Jews. He denies Christ and is ashamed of Him, our Lord and our God, so he is not only a heretic but an apostate. How worse can it get?

    What did the Church do during the Arian heresy? Didn't the holy ones in the Church continue to consecrate bishops and ordain priests so the faith was preserved? Isn't that what we are doing today?

    Isn't the heretic Francis far worse than the Arians? Arians declared that there was a time when Christ was not God. Francis has declared that Christ was never God. Actually, Francis' belief is more consistent with that of the perfidious Jews who committed the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Has he gone that far? Does he worship with Satanists and celebrate Black Masses?
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    Lord have mercy.
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