Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 44

Author Topic: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!  (Read 47090 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Meg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6792
  • Reputation: +3470/-2999
  • Gender: Female
Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
« Reply #150 on: November 10, 2019, 12:57:53 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!1
    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 10, 2019, 12:37:00 PM
    No, that is not how forums work.  They are intended for discussion and argument, not spamming in entire articles, piece by piece, peppering them in without any regard for whether or not they are pertinent to the current state of the thread.

    Tell ya what. I won't post my next installment of John of St. Thomas' views on deposing a heretical Pope until tomorrow morning. That way, you'll have the whole rest the day today to promote and defend your sedeprivationist views. John of St. Thomas, of course, wasn't a sedeprivationist.

    Ta ta until tomorrow morning!  :)
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Nishant Xavier

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2873
    • Reputation: +1894/-1751
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #151 on: November 10, 2019, 02:53:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on November 10, 2019, 11:12:32 AM
    Of course, Ladislaus.  But what's under dispute is WHEN is one guilty of heresy?  PaxChristi2's research argues that this does not apply until the Church rules on the matter.  I agree.  Once the Church discerns heresy, THEN that person has defected from the faith (or, it can be said that it is established as fact that they defected).
    .
    The way you explained it above is too general.  It glosses over a few steps which must take place first.  It's a summary with no detailed process.  
    Pax and Ladislaus, the way Fr. Ballerini (of St. Robert's school) describes it below, loss of office would take place after some kind of warnings or admonitions, such that public pertinacity becomes manifest, “For the person who, admonished once or twice, does not repent, but continues pertinacious in an opinion contrary to a manifest or public dogma - not being able, on account of this public pertinacity to be excused, by any means, of heresy properly so called, which requires pertinacity - this person declares himself openly a heretic. He reveals that by his own will he has turned away from the Catholic Faith and the Church, in such form that now no declaration or sentence of any one whatsoever is necessary to cut him from the body of the Church. (…) Therefore the Pontiff who after such a solemn and public warning by the Cardinals, by the Roman Clergy or even by the Synod, maintained himself hardened in heresy and openly turned himself away from the Church, would have to be avoided, according to the precept of Saint Paul. So that he might not cause damage to the rest, he would have to have his heresy and contumacy publicly proclaimed, so that all might be able to be equally on guard in relation to him. Thus, the sentence which he had pronounced against himself would be made known to all the Church, making clear that by his own will be had turned away and separated himself from the body of the Church, and that in a certain way he had abdicated the Pontificate, which no one holds or can hold if he does not belong to the Church”. From: http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/heretical.htm


    Logged

    Offline Maria Regina

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3774
    • Reputation: +1006/-551
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #152 on: November 10, 2019, 04:11:39 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: XavierSem on November 10, 2019, 02:53:07 PM
    Pax and Ladislaus, the way Fr. Ballerini (of St. Robert's school) describes it below, loss of office would take place after some kind of warnings or admonitions, such that public pertinacity becomes manifest, “For the person who, admonished once or twice, does not repent, but continues pertinacious in an opinion contrary to a manifest or public dogma - not being able, on account of this public pertinacity to be excused, by any means, of heresy properly so called, which requires pertinacity - this person declares himself openly a heretic. He reveals that by his own will he has turned away from the Catholic Faith and the Church, in such form that now no declaration or sentence of any one whatsoever is necessary to cut him from the body of the Church. (…) Therefore the Pontiff who after such a solemn and public warning by the Cardinals, by the Roman Clergy or even by the Synod, maintained himself hardened in heresy and openly turned himself away from the Church, would have to be avoided, according to the precept of Saint Paul. So that he might not cause damage to the rest, he would have to have his heresy and contumacy publicly proclaimed, so that all might be able to be equally on guard in relation to him. Thus, the sentence which he had pronounced against himself would be made known to all the Church, making clear that by his own will be had turned away and separated himself from the body of the Church, and that in a certain way he had abdicated the Pontificate, which no one holds or can hold if he does not belong to the Church”. From: http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/heretical.htm
    Francis was warned publicly by several cardinals. He did not acknowledge his guilt but sidestepped the questions much in the same way that Lying Pencil-Necked Shifty Schiff does.

    At the recent Amazon Synod, the synod did nothing about the Pachamama idolatry that was taking place. So, what happens when the synod of bishops and our heretical pope are all heretics and apostates? Isn't that also what happened at Vatican II?

    Are the laity, monks, and priests unable to do anything about it? They can be complicit or they can stand up (confefe), remain firm, and resist the pope to his face, much like St. Paul did to St. Peter who was in error over the Gentile question.

    Then  think about the Arian heresy which infected about 90 percent of the Catholic Church. This heresy lasted more than 100 years. The faith was preserved by devout monastics, devout members of the laity, faithful priests, and only a handful of faithful bishops as the rest were all in heresy.
    Logged
    Lord have mercy.

    Offline Kelley

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 209
    • Reputation: +659/-7
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #153 on: November 10, 2019, 07:29:44 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Kelley on November 09, 2019, 08:08:28 PM
    Thank you for providing that biography, Stubborn. This is the narration which can be also found on the new book's jacket cover. However, it still lacks answers to specific questions.

    Father, although it does provide information about your ordaining bishop, +Vittorio Constantini, who in 1962 was consecrated in the traditional rite, we're still uncertain about the details of your ordination. Was it in the new rite or the traditional rite? Having been ordained in a Diocesan Cathedral in 1980, it may be safe to assume that it was in the new rite; was this the case, Father? And if yes, have your ever received a traditional rite ordination sub conditione by a traditional bishop?

    Thank you, Father, we would be very grateful if you-yourself could answer these questions from the faithful.

    Father, with your ongoing activity here and your recent posting on Facebook, it's obvious you have no interest in answering these questions about your ordination details (which some may construe as an answer in itself). That being the case, unless you inform us otherwise, we may assume the following:

    1.) In 1980, you were ordained in the new-rite by a bishop who was consecrated in the traditional-rite.

    2.) You have yet to receive a traditional-rite ordination sub conditione by a traditional bishop.

    Isn't it ironic that someone who has dedicated nearly 400 pages to expressing his opinion finds it so difficult writing a sentence or two in order to clarify legitimate concerns from the faithful? 
    Logged

    Offline Clemens Maria

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2246
    • Reputation: +1485/-605
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #154 on: November 10, 2019, 07:48:59 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: XavierSem on November 10, 2019, 02:53:07 PM
    Pax and Ladislaus, the way Fr. Ballerini (of St. Robert's school) describes it below, loss of office would take place after some kind of warnings or admonitions, such that public pertinacity becomes manifest, “For the person who, admonished once or twice, does not repent, but continues pertinacious in an opinion contrary to a manifest or public dogma - not being able, on account of this public pertinacity to be excused, by any means, of heresy properly so called, which requires pertinacity - this person declares himself openly a heretic. He reveals that by his own will he has turned away from the Catholic Faith and the Church, in such form that now no declaration or sentence of any one whatsoever is necessary to cut him from the body of the Church. (…) Therefore the Pontiff who after such a solemn and public warning by the Cardinals, by the Roman Clergy or even by the Synod, maintained himself hardened in heresy and openly turned himself away from the Church, would have to be avoided, according to the precept of Saint Paul. So that he might not cause damage to the rest, he would have to have his heresy and contumacy publicly proclaimed, so that all might be able to be equally on guard in relation to him. Thus, the sentence which he had pronounced against himself would be made known to all the Church, making clear that by his own will be had turned away and separated himself from the body of the Church, and that in a certain way he had abdicated the Pontificate, which no one holds or can hold if he does not belong to the Church”. From: http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/heretical.htm
    Even Salza and Siscoe admit that no admonition or warning is necessary when a pope definitively severs the external bonds of unity.  So the only disagreement now would be on what constitutes a tacit resignation.  Maybe the fact that even the SSPX still rejects the Conciliar magisterium should be a clue about how far along the Conciliar popes are in the tacit resignation process.  Requiring them to explicitly say, "I quit the Church" is ridiculous.  Freemasons aren't going to do that.  By their fruits you shall know them.
    Logged

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6792
    • Reputation: +3470/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #155 on: November 11, 2019, 04:51:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • The declarative sentence must be made by a General Council

    John of St. Thomas writes:

    "[…] This Council can be convened by the authority of the Church which is in the bishops or the greater majority of them; the Church has, by divine law, the right to separate herself from a heretical Pope, and therefore she has all the means necessary for such a separation; now, a necessary means itself (per se) is to be able to legally prove such a crime; but we cannot prove it legally unless if there is a competent judgment, and in such a serious matter, we cannot have a competent judgment except by the General Council, because it is about the universal head of the Church, so much so that it depends on the judgment of the universal Church, that is to say, of the General Council.

    I do not share the opinion of Fr. Suarez who believes that this can be treated by Provincial Councils; indeed, a Provincial Council does not represent the universal Church in a manner that this case can be treated by such authority; and even several Provincial Councils have no such representation or authority.

    If this is not about the authority under which one must judge, but about one who has the authority to convene the [General Council], I believe that this is not assigned to a specific person, but it can be done by either the Cardinals who could communicate the news to the bishops, either by the nearest bishops who could tell the others so that all are gathered; or even at the request of princes, not as a summons having coercive force, as when a Pope convenes a Council, but as an "enuntative" convocation that denounces such a crime to the bishops and manifest it in order that they come to bring a remedy. And the Pope cannot annul such a Council or reject it because he is itself part of it (quia ipse est pars) and that the Church has the power, by divine right, to convene the council for this purpose, because she has the right to secede from a heretic."


    http://www.dominicansavrille.us/on-the-deposition-of-the-pope-part-1-of-2/
    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline forlorn

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2527
    • Reputation: +1041/-1106
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #156 on: November 11, 2019, 05:11:20 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • How can we ever determine a legitimate deposing council from a schismatic one, except by private interpretation? Normally we rely on the pope's assent to know whether a general council is valid or not, but obviously that won't work in this scenario. 
    Logged

    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2430
    • Reputation: +1594/-94
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #157 on: November 11, 2019, 07:05:46 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Kelley on November 10, 2019, 07:29:44 PM
    Father, with your ongoing activity here and your recent posting on Facebook, it's obvious you have no interest in answering these questions about your ordination details (which some may construe as an answer in itself). That being the case, unless you inform us otherwise, we may assume the following:

    1.) In 1980, you were ordained in the new-rite by a bishop who was consecrated in the traditional-rite.

    2.) You have yet to receive a traditional-rite ordination sub conditione by a traditional bishop.

    Isn't it ironic that someone who has dedicated nearly 400 pages to expressing his opinion finds it so difficult writing a sentence or two in order to clarify legitimate concerns from the faithful?
    Bishop Williamson and Fr. Chazal say Fr. Kramer's original ordination is valid and is not in need of re-ordination. Fr. Kramer use to assist the SSPX back in the old days in the Philippines and just a couple of years ago offered mass at Fr. Chazel's "bamboo seminary." 
    Logged

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 4776
    • Reputation: +2923/-673
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #158 on: November 11, 2019, 07:21:30 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Mr G on November 11, 2019, 07:05:46 AM
    Bishop Williamson and Fr. Chazal say Fr. Kramer's original ordination is valid and is not in need of re-ordination. Fr. Kramer use to assist the SSPX back in the old days in the Philippines and just a couple of years ago offered mass at Fr. Chazel's "bamboo seminary."
    Can you give us the criteria used by Bishop Williamson and Fr. Chazal in making this determination?
    Logged
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Mr G

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2430
    • Reputation: +1594/-94
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #159 on: November 11, 2019, 07:35:31 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on November 11, 2019, 07:21:30 AM
    Can you give us the criteria used by Bishop Williamson and Fr. Chazal in making this determination?
    I do not know the criteria they used, you may want to contact Bishop Williamson for details.
    Correspondence for Bishop Williamson:letters@eleisoncomments.com
    Logged

    Offline Meg

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 6792
    • Reputation: +3470/-2999
    • Gender: Female
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #160 on: November 11, 2019, 07:37:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Archbishop Lefebvre, from what I understand, only sometimes re-ordained priests that come to the SSPX from the Novus Ordo. He didn't automatically consider their ordinations invalid. 

    Logged
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47696
    • Reputation: +28206/-5287
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #161 on: November 11, 2019, 08:13:15 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Quote from: forlorn on November 11, 2019, 05:11:20 AM
    How can we ever determine a legitimate deposing council from a schismatic one, except by private interpretation? Normally we rely on the pope's assent to know whether a general council is valid or not, but obviously that won't work in this scenario.

    I've raised this issue before, one of many problems with the S&S (and even John of St. Thomas position).  What if we had a majority of the hierarchy infested with heresy, such as during the Arian crisis, and they convened a General Council and deposed a pope?

    What if there were an Arian pope and the majority of the bishops were Arians?  You'd never be able to get rid of the guy.

    Even if there wasn't that scenario, what if a General Council voted 51% - 49% that the Pope was a heretic but the minority 49% refused to accept that?  So is a simple majority sufficient to oust a Pope?

    Some of this General Council stuff sounds good on paper, but when you think it through, it could become an absolute mess in actual practical application.
    Logged

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47696
    • Reputation: +28206/-5287
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #162 on: November 11, 2019, 08:15:15 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Here's another huge problem with the S&S position and the General Council nonsense.

    Since at the time of convening a General Council, the Pope is still the Pope and still has authority, he could simply declare the Council invalid and shut it down.  He'd have all the authority in the world to do so, since he's still the Pope.

    Again, the only way that a General Council could validly be convened in order to declare a pope deposed is if he were already in some manner deposed ... e.g., already formally deposed, and the only role of the Council is to declare him materially deposed also.
    Logged

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47696
    • Reputation: +28206/-5287
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #163 on: November 11, 2019, 08:16:51 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
    • Look, Bergoglio is obviously a heretic.  Amor Laetitia is in fact clear-cut heresy.  Even several Cardinals came out and said as much.

    But because 99% of the Novus Ordo is infested with heretics, or cowards, or lazy men ... NOTHING WILL EVER BE DONE ABOUT IT.

    So a heretic pope like Bergoglio could continue to exercise papal authority INDEFINITELY ... since nothing will be done about it.
    Logged

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Supporter
    • *****
    • Posts: 47696
    • Reputation: +28206/-5287
    • Gender: Male
    Re: Tony La Rosa: Benedict XVI Is the True Pope!
    « Reply #164 on: November 11, 2019, 08:19:54 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
    • Let's say you have a clear-cut obvious heretic.  "I know the Church teaches this, but I don't believe it."

    Now some situation, say a major world war, intervenes and prevents there being a General Council.

    So this obvious heretic still has papal authority?  Until the General Council could be convened, he could depose ever single bishop in the world and replace him with one of his own (people who believe the same heresy)?

    In fact, according to the utterly absurd Siscoe and Salza positon, if the bishops tried to convene a General Council, the heretic pope could instantly depose every single one of them before they had a chance to convene the Council ... since he would have the authority to do so.  Then he could replace them all with men who hold his heresy ... and prevent any action from being taken against.

    One ridiculous argumentum ad absurdum after another that obliterates the S&S position.
    Logged
    Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 ... 44
    « previous next »