Author Topic: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!  (Read 2550 times)

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Offline XavierSem

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To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
« on: February 12, 2021, 12:15:07 PM »
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  • To sedes: If you truly believe Pope Ven. Pius XII was the last Pope of the Roman Catholic Church, why haven't you elected a new Pope yet? Better hurry, because time is running out. In fact, unless you are willing to change your opinion and admit that Pope John XXIII was the last Pope, it has already run out! The Bishops appointed by Pope Pius XII have died, the last one passing in July 2020. The Bishops appointed by Pope John XXIII may be alive for a short while longer.

    See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_living_Catholic_bishops_and_cardinals (Sort by Consecrated Bishop Year. There appear to be about 6 left currently. Why aren't Sedes contacing these Bishops?)

    Now Fr. Suarez cites as the common opinion of the Doctors, that Bishops who are Ordinary Pastors, must pass a binding declaration of fact that the See is Vacant, before a new Pope can be elected.

    The Doctors only envisioned one single Pope possibly becoming a heretic, and the Bishops taking against him in his lifetime, not an alleged indefinite series of 6+Popes to whom nothing is done.

    "In the first place, who ought to pronounce such a sentence? Some say that it would be the Cardinals; and the Church would be able undoubtedly to attribute to them this faculty, above all if it were thus established by the consent or determination of the Supreme Pontiffs, as was done in regard to the ɛƖɛctıon. But up to today we do not read in any place that such a judgment has been confided to them. For this reason, one must affirm that, as such, it pertains to all the Bishops of the Church, for, being the ordinary pastors and the pillars of the Church, one must consider that such a case concerns them. And since by divine law there is no greater reason to affirm that the matter is of more interest to these bishops than to those, and since by human law nothing has been established in the matter, one must necessarily sustain that the case refers to all, and even to the general council. That is the common opinion among the Doctors”. https://gloria.tv/post/YdoivbvJEnUF4CC2EP4SzwXoV

    Now, who are these "Ordinary Pastors of the Church"? The Bishops with Ordinary Jurisdiction, of course. They must pass the binding declaration. Otherwise, the ɛƖɛctıon of the new Pope will not be binding. See Pope Michael.

    Who are they? As the "last Pope" himself taught, in the "last year" of the Papacy at that, "jurisdiction passes to bishops only through the Roman Pontiff as We admonished in the Encyclical Letter Mystici Corporis in the following words: ". . . As far as his own diocese is concerned each (bishop) feeds the flock entrusted to him as a true shepherd and rules it in the name of Christ. Yet in exercising this office they are not altogether independent but are subordinate to the lawful authority of the Roman Pontiff, although enjoying ordinary power of jurisdiction which they receive directly from the same Supreme Pontiff."[13]

    40. And when We later addressed to you the letter Ad Sinarum gentem, We again referred to this teaching in these words: "The power of jurisdiction which is conferred directly by divine right on the Supreme Pontiff comes to bishops by that same right, but only through the successor of Peter, to whom not only the faithful but also all bishops are bound to be constantly subject and to adhere both by the reverence of obedience and by the bond of unity."[14] http://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_29061958_ad-apostolorum-principis.html

    The sede bishops know this, and admit it, and thus acknowledge they don't have Ordinary Jurisdiction, as no Pope appointed them. Ok. But what about those appointed by real Popes?

    If Pope Pius XII was the last Pope, it's game over. The required imperfect General Council, comprised of Ordinary Pastors, can never again be assembled. The Church is finished.

    If Pope John XXIII was the last Pope, you have some years left. But there are only a few Bishops still alive who were appointed by H.H. Why aren't sedes reaching out to them?

    Better hurry!
    Make this Life Offering to the Twin Hearts of Jesus and Mary today! Don't delay! You can Save Souls!

    (1) All your family members will be saved (2) Your loved ones in Purgatory will be released, and (3) you yourself will not need Purgatory if you make it.
    https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering

    Offline Bataar

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #1 on: February 12, 2021, 12:50:55 PM »
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  • It is the College of Cardinals that elects the pope, not bishops. All existing cardinals can validly elect a pope. Bergoglio and all VII popes have all been legitimate heads of the Vatican City state. They may not be the Vicar of Christ, but they are still the legitimate head of that state. Part of their duty as head of state is following the state's laws to ensure succession, that means creating cardinals. Any cardinal appointed by a VII pope can validly elect the next head of the state. If that head also turns out to be an orthodox Catholic, than hurray, we have a true pope. 


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #2 on: February 12, 2021, 01:05:29 PM »
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  • Xavier, do you really believe that the mockery and satire is helpful and constructive?  What do you hope to accomplish with this?

    To which "sedes" do you refer?  This is not an issue for the sedeprivationists.

    As for the rest, we've discussed it a dozen times already, and the sedevacantists have satisfactory responses to your points ... whether you agree with their arguments or not ... that are quite tenable.

    If your intent is to persuade, then your target audience might be more inclined to listen if you respectfully presented an argument from a disinterested perspective, i.e. as if coming from someone seeking the truth rather than to attack.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #3 on: February 12, 2021, 03:10:44 PM »
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  •  :sleep:
    "For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest, nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad."- Luke 8:17

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #4 on: February 12, 2021, 03:26:49 PM »
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  • I think XavierSem has a recurring reminder in his Google Calendar app to remind him to post this same exact question on here on a regular basis. I've lost track how many times he's asked the same thing in different words, time and time again.


    Offline MiserereMei

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #5 on: February 12, 2021, 04:41:57 PM »
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  • To sedes: If you truly believe Pope Ven. Pius XII was the last Pope of the Roman Catholic Church, why haven't you elected a new Pope yet? Better hurry, because time is running out. In fact, unless you are willing to change your opinion and admit that Pope John XXIII was the last Pope, it has already run out! The Bishops appointed by Pope Pius XII have died, the last one passing in July 2020. The Bishops appointed by Pope John XXIII may be alive for a short while longer.

    See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_living_Catholic_bishops_and_cardinals (Sort by Consecrated Bishop Year. There appear to be about 6 left currently. Why aren't Sedes contacing these Bishops?)

    Now Fr. Suarez cites as the common opinion of the Doctors, that Bishops who are Ordinary Pastors, must pass a binding declaration of fact that the See is Vacant, before a new Pope can be elected.

    The Doctors only envisioned one single Pope possibly becoming a heretic, and the Bishops taking against him in his lifetime, not an alleged indefinite series of 6+Popes to whom nothing is done.

    "In the first place, who ought to pronounce such a sentence? Some say that it would be the Cardinals; and the Church would be able undoubtedly to attribute to them this faculty, above all if it were thus established by the consent or determination of the Supreme Pontiffs, as was done in regard to the ɛƖɛctıon. But up to today we do not read in any place that such a judgment has been confided to them. For this reason, one must affirm that, as such, it pertains to all the Bishops of the Church, for, being the ordinary pastors and the pillars of the Church, one must consider that such a case concerns them. And since by divine law there is no greater reason to affirm that the matter is of more interest to these bishops than to those, and since by human law nothing has been established in the matter, one must necessarily sustain that the case refers to all, and even to the general council. That is the common opinion among the Doctors”. https://gloria.tv/post/YdoivbvJEnUF4CC2EP4SzwXoV

    Now, who are these "Ordinary Pastors of the Church"? The Bishops with Ordinary Jurisdiction, of course. They must pass the binding declaration. Otherwise, the ɛƖɛctıon of the new Pope will not be binding. See Pope Michael.

    Who are they? As the "last Pope" himself taught, in the "last year" of the Papacy at that, "jurisdiction passes to bishops only through the Roman Pontiff as We admonished in the Encyclical Letter Mystici Corporis in the following words: ". . . As far as his own diocese is concerned each (bishop) feeds the flock entrusted to him as a true shepherd and rules it in the name of Christ. Yet in exercising this office they are not altogether independent but are subordinate to the lawful authority of the Roman Pontiff, although enjoying ordinary power of jurisdiction which they receive directly from the same Supreme Pontiff."[13]

    40. And when We later addressed to you the letter Ad Sinarum gentem, We again referred to this teaching in these words: "The power of jurisdiction which is conferred directly by divine right on the Supreme Pontiff comes to bishops by that same right, but only through the successor of Peter, to whom not only the faithful but also all bishops are bound to be constantly subject and to adhere both by the reverence of obedience and by the bond of unity."[14] http://www.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_29061958_ad-apostolorum-principis.html

    The sede bishops know this, and admit it, and thus acknowledge they don't have Ordinary Jurisdiction, as no Pope appointed them. Ok. But what about those appointed by real Popes?

    If Pope Pius XII was the last Pope, it's game over. The required imperfect General Council, comprised of Ordinary Pastors, can never again be assembled. The Church is finished.

    If Pope John XXIII was the last Pope, you have some years left. But there are only a few Bishops still alive who were appointed by H.H. Why aren't sedes reaching out to them?

    Better hurry!
    The "method" to elect a pope is not of Divine Law. Any other law, under certain conditions, that is impossible to follow is not enforceable. In the hypotetical scenario that all cardinals and bishops of the world die and the only one left is a sede bishop, he could become the pope or he could incardinate more bishops and then conduct a conclave under other rules for the good of the souls.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #6 on: February 12, 2021, 06:56:58 PM »
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  • I think XavierSem has a recurring reminder in his Google Calendar app to remind him to post this same exact question on here on a regular basis. I've lost track how many times he's asked the same thing in different words, time and time again.
    I think you hit the nail on the head. Very good.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #7 on: February 12, 2021, 07:32:14 PM »
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  • Xavier doesn't understand the subject enough to converse about it, which is why his posts are filled with quotes.  He should be ignored. 


    Offline GregoryPiusLeoSarto

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #8 on: February 19, 2021, 11:36:07 PM »
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  • OBJECTION # 2: The Vatican II Popes must be true Popes because otherwise Christ’s promise of always being with us would be false.
    ANSWER # 2: Actually, the exact opposite is true, the Vatican II Popes must be anti-popes because Christ promised to ALWAYS be with His Church and that His Church would never teach any error or heresy.
    How could you square: "I will be with you all days." with the supposed fact that Roncalli thru Bergoglio ARE true popes...then Christ's promised would have failed, then He would have allowed His Church to fail, He would have allowed His Church to be a vehicle of error and damnation.
     
    But on the other hand, if Roncalli thru Bergoglio are antipopes, then the Church is still indefectible, it simply hasn't had a valid pope since 1958...but at least the Church and a true Pope wouldn't be propagators of error and heresy!
     
    To put it another way, it is possible to have antipopes and interregnums (https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/fr-edmund-james-oreilly-s-j-on-the-idea-of-a-long-term-vacancy-of-the-holy-see/), but it is not possible to have valid popes who teach heresy in Ecumenical Councils and Encyclicals.
     
    Here is another article that answers this objection:  
     
    OBJECTION: Vatican Council I taught that St. Peter has perpetual successors; therefore, long vacancies in the See of Peter are not possible.
     
    ANSWER: Nowhere does the Church determine how long a vacancy may exist in the See of Peter. Between the death of Pope Clement IV (November 29, 1268) and the ɛƖɛctıon of Pope Gregory X (September 1, 1271), there was an interregnum of nearly three years. During the Western Schism, there were three claimants to the See of Peter; theologians teach that even if none of them were pope, that would not be against the promise of Christ or the teaching of perpetual successors.
     
    Proof:
    A. Institutiones Theologiae Fundamentalis [1929], Rev. A. Dorsch
    — “The Church therefore is a society that is essentially monarchical. But this does not prevent the Church, for a short time after the death of a pope, or even for many years, from remaining deprived of her head [vel etiam per plures annos capite suo destituta manet].”
    B. The Relations of the Church to Society [1882], Fr. Edward J. O’Reilly, S.J.
    — “In the first place, there was all throughout from the death of Gregory XI in 1378, a Pope—with the exception, of course, of the intervals between deaths and ɛƖɛctıons to fill up the vacancies thereby created. There was, I say, at every given time a Pope, really invested with the dignity of Vicar of Christ and Head of the Church, whatever opinions might exist among many as to his genuineness; not that an interregnum covering the whole period would have been impossible or inconsistent with the promises of Christ, for this is by no means manifest, but that, as a matter of fact, there was not such an interregnum.”
    C. The Catholic’s Ready Answer [1915], Rev. M. P. Hill, S.J.
    — “If during the entire schism (nearly 40 years) there had been no Pope at all—that would not prove that the office and authority of Peter was not transmitted to the next Pope duly elected.”
    D. The Defense of the Catholic Church [1927] Fr. Francis X. Doyle, S.J.
    — “The Church is a visible society with a visible Ruler. If there can be any doubt about who that visible Ruler is, he is not visible, and hence, where there is any doubt about whether a person has been legitimately elected Pope, that doubt must be removed before he can become the visible head of Christ’s Church. Blessed Bellarmine, S.J., says: ‘A doubtful Pope must be considered as not Pope’; and Suarez, S.J., says: ‘At the time of the Council of Constance there were three men claiming to be Pope…. Hence, it could have been that not one of them was the true Pope, and in that case, there was no Pope at all….’”
    https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/answering-the-objections-to-the-sedevacantist-position/

    Offline GregoryPiusLeoSarto

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #9 on: February 19, 2021, 11:36:44 PM »
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  • Sola Ex Cathedra is every bit as much a heresy as Sola Scriptura
    1.)   Sola Ex Cathedra (Popes are only infallible when making
    an ex cathedra definition) is a heresy of semi-Trads.
    2.)   Sola Scriptura (only the Bible is infallible) is a heresy of Protestants.
     
    If the Popes could at times teach heresy, how would we know when they are teaching truth or error?  We would have to be the superior of the Pope to decide when he is teaching the truth and when he is teaching falsehood…that is a complete prideful delusion!
     
     
    OBJECTION # 1: Vatican I said the Pope is only infallible when speaking Ex Cathedra
     
    ANSWER # 1: While it is true that Ex Cathedra statements are infallible; it is absolutely NOT true that Ex Cathedra statements are the ONLY times Popes are infallible. Vatican I infallibly declares:
     
    The First Vatican Council  
    Dogmatic Constitution of Vatican I,Pastor Aeternus    
    Pope Pius IX, July 18, 1870 A.D.    
      
    “Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this see of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.    
      
    “This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this see so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock of Christ might be kept away by them from the poisonous food of error and be nourished with the sustenance of heavenly doctrine.”    
     
    The First Vatican Council    
    Dogmatic Constitution on the Catholic Faith, Dei Filius    
    Pope Pius IX, 24 April 1870 A.D.    
      
    “Wherefore, by divine and Catholic faith all those things are to be believed which are contained in the word of God as found in Scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the Church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium.”   
      
    Humani Generis     
    On Modern Errors     
    Pope Pius XII – August 12, 1950     
      
    Paragraph 20: “Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority (magisterio ordinario), of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me…”  (Lk. 10:16)   
     
    Notice above in Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII infallibly teaches that    
     
    • Encyclical Letters are the Ordinary Magisterium, "of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me…”  (Lk. 10:16)    
    • So if we admit that Christ is infallible   
    • Then we must admit that Encyclicals and the Ordinary Magisterium are infallible.  
     
    OBJECTION # 2: The Vatican II Popes must be true Popes because otherwise Christ’s promise of always being with us would be false.
    ANSWER # 2: Actually, the exact opposite is true, the Vatican II Popes must be anti-popes because Christ promised to ALWAYS be with His Church and that His Church would never teach any error or heresy.
    How could you square: "I will be with you all days." with the supposed fact that Roncalli thru Bergoglio ARE true popes...then Christ's promised would have failed, then He would have allowed His Church to fail, He would have allowed His Church to be a vehicle of error and damnation.
     
    But on the other hand, if Roncalli thru Bergoglio are antipopes, then the Church is still indefectible, it simply hasn't had a valid pope since 1958...but at least the Church and a true Pope wouldn't be propagators of error and heresy!
     
    To put it another way, it is possible to have antipopes and interregnums (https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/fr-edmund-james-oreilly-s-j-on-the-idea-of-a-long-term-vacancy-of-the-holy-see/), but it is not possible to have valid popes who teach heresy in Ecumenical Councils and Encyclicals.
     
    Here is another article that answers this objection:  
     
    OBJECTION: Vatican Council I taught that St. Peter has perpetual successors; therefore, long vacancies in the See of Peter are not possible.
     
    ANSWER: Nowhere does the Church determine how long a vacancy may exist in the See of Peter. Between the death of Pope Clement IV (November 29, 1268) and the ɛƖɛctıon of Pope Gregory X (September 1, 1271), there was an interregnum of nearly three years. During the Western Schism, there were three claimants to the See of Peter; theologians teach that even if none of them were pope, that would not be against the promise of Christ or the teaching of perpetual successors.
     
    Proof:
    A. Institutiones Theologiae Fundamentalis [1929], Rev. A. Dorsch
    — “The Church therefore is a society that is essentially monarchical. But this does not prevent the Church, for a short time after the death of a pope, or even for many years, from remaining deprived of her head [vel etiam per plures annos capite suo destituta manet].”
    B. The Relations of the Church to Society [1882], Fr. Edward J. O’Reilly, S.J.
    — “In the first place, there was all throughout from the death of Gregory XI in 1378, a Pope—with the exception, of course, of the intervals between deaths and ɛƖɛctıons to fill up the vacancies thereby created. There was, I say, at every given time a Pope, really invested with the dignity of Vicar of Christ and Head of the Church, whatever opinions might exist among many as to his genuineness; not that an interregnum covering the whole period would have been impossible or inconsistent with the promises of Christ, for this is by no means manifest, but that, as a matter of fact, there was not such an interregnum.”
    C. The Catholic’s Ready Answer [1915], Rev. M. P. Hill, S.J.
    — “If during the entire schism (nearly 40 years) there had been no Pope at all—that would not prove that the office and authority of Peter was not transmitted to the next Pope duly elected.”
    D. The Defense of the Catholic Church [1927] Fr. Francis X. Doyle, S.J.
    — “The Church is a visible society with a visible Ruler. If there can be any doubt about who that visible Ruler is, he is not visible, and hence, where there is any doubt about whether a person has been legitimately elected Pope, that doubt must be removed before he can become the visible head of Christ’s Church. Blessed Bellarmine, S.J., says: ‘A doubtful Pope must be considered as not Pope’; and Suarez, S.J., says: ‘At the time of the Council of Constance there were three men claiming to be Pope…. Hence, it could have been that not one of them was the true Pope, and in that case, there was no Pope at all….’”
    https://cmri.org/articles-on-the-traditional-catholic-faith/answering-the-objections-to-the-sedevacantist-position/
    TAKE A STEP BACK AND CONSIDER:
     
    If the Popes could at times teach heresy, how would we know when they are teaching truth or error?  We would have to be the superior of the Pope to decide when he is teaching the truth and when he is teaching falsehood…that is a complete prideful delusion!
     
    Just think for a moment and you will realize how absurd it is to maintain that Roncalli thru Bergoglio are true Popes.
     
    1.)   If Popes could teach error and heresy in Encyclicals and Ecumenical Councils then why would we believe in the Trinity, maybe the Council of Nicea got that wrong?
     
    2.)   If true Popes could teach error and heresy in "Dogmatic Constitutions" of Ecumenical Councils, why would we believe in Purgatory or that there are 7 Sacraments, maybe the Council of Trent just got those things wrong?
     
    3.)   If true Popes could teach error and heresy in their Ordinary Magisterium as long as it isn't an ex cathedra statement, why would we believe that contraception is evil, that is not an Ex Cathedra statement, that is just taught in simple Encyclicals, maybe the Casti Connubbii
     
    4.)   If true Popes could teach error and heresy in their Ordinary Magisterium as long as it isn't an ex cathedra statement, why would we believe that any of the Saints, like St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Alphonsus Ligouri, St. Benedict, St. Francis of Assisi, St. Anthony Padua, St. Theresa of Avila, St. Magaret Mary Alocoque, etc. are real Saints, if the Church could error in Canonizations maybe the above Saints are just as fake as "St. John XXIII," "St. Paul VI" and "St. John Paul?"
     
    5.)   If true Popes could promulgate, approve and decree evil liturgies like the Novus Ordo, why would we go to the Traditional Latin Mass...maybe that is an evil liturgy approved and promulgated by Pope Pius V?
     
    OBJECTION # 3: We need to be so grateful for ____(fill in the blank: the SSPX, the Resistance, the FSSP, etc.) they give us the Sacraments and preach the Faith in its entirety to us!
     
    ANSWER # 3:  Do they preach that Ecumenical Councils are ALWAYS infallible and that Encyclicals are ALWAYS infallible?
     
    If not, then that is not the Faith in its entirety, it is a betrayal of some essential dogmas of the faith:
     
    What Does the Magisterium Teach?
    Humility is the path both to being a Catholic & to saving our soul.
     
    1.)   Heretics pick & choose which Magisterial teachings they accept & which they reject.
    2.)   Heretics judge for themselves (aka private judgment), they think they know better than the Magisterium.
    3.)   Heretics make themselves into their own popes, deciding which Magisterial teachings are true and which are false.
     
    1.)   Catholics do NOT pick & choose which Magisterial teachings to accept & which to reject, they MUST simply accept them all.
    2.)   Catholics do NOT judge for themselves (aka private judgment), they do NOT think they know better than the Magisterium.
    3.)   Catholics do NOT make themselves into their own popes, deciding which Magisterial teachings are true and which are false.
     
    Can you rebut the following by using infallible quotes from the Magisterium?  If not, then shouldn't we believe exactly what Vatican I, Humani Generis and Mortalium Animos teach?   
     
    1.)   You, nor I, nor the SSPX, nor the Resistance, nor Archbishop Lefebvre are infallible. 
    2.)   The Catholic Church is infallible. 
    3.)   The “…See of St. Peter ALWAYS remains unblemished by any error.” (Vatican I) It was given a “gift of truth and NEVER failing faith.” 
    4.)   The Solemn Magisterium is infallible. (Vatican I)
    5.)   The Ordinary Magisterium is infallible. (Humani Generis)
    6.)   Encyclicals and Ecumenical Councils are infallible.
    7.)   “…the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine.” (Mystici Corporis Christi) 
    8.)   Vatican II is heretical and countless subsequent Encyclicals of the V2 popes are heretical, (http://www.holyromancatholicchurch.org/heresies.html), therefore it is not possible for Roncalli thru Bergoglio to be Popes, because Vatican I infallibly teaches: 
     
    The First Vatican Council  
    Dogmatic Constitution of Vatican I,Pastor Aeternus    
    Pope Pius IX, July 18, 1870 A.D.    
      
    “Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this see of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren.    
      
    “This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this see so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock of Christ might be kept away by them from the poisonous food of error and be nourished with the sustenance of heavenly doctrine.”    
     
    The First Vatican Council    
    Dogmatic Constitution on the Catholic Faith, Dei Filius    
    Pope Pius IX, 24 April 1870 A.D.    
      
    “Wherefore, by divine and Catholic faith all those things are to be believed which are contained in the word of God as found in Scripture and tradition, and which are proposed by the Church as matters to be believed as divinely revealed, whether by her solemn judgment or in her ordinary and universal magisterium.”   
      
    Humani Generis     
    On Modern Errors     
    Pope Pius XII – August 12, 1950     
      
    Paragraph 20: “Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority (magisterio ordinario), of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me…”  (Lk. 10:16)   
     
    Notice above in Humani Generis, Pope Pius XII infallibly teaches that    
     
    • Encyclical Letters are the Ordinary Magisterium, "of which it is true to say: “He who heareth you, heareth me…”  (Lk. 10:16)    
    • So if we admit that Christ is infallible   
    • Then we must admit that Encyclicals and the Ordinary Magisterium are infallible.  
     
    Mortalium Animos, Encyclical by Pope Pius XI, 1928  
     
    “The Magisterium of the Church (“Ecclesia Magisterium”) which in the divine wisdom was constituted on earth in order that revealed doctrines might remain intact forever, and that they might be brought with ease and security to the knowledge of men, … is daily exercised [cotidie exerceturthrough the Roman Pontiff and the Bishops who are in communion with him.” (Pius XI, Mortalium Animos, 1928)  
      
    Note Well: The Teaching Authority (Magisterium) of the Church is exercised every day…not just in extraordinary circumstances, so there is no way to maintain that Vatican II and 62 years worth of Encyclicals and Catechisms from 1958-2020 weren’t the Magisterium of the Church…the Church’s Magisterium is incapable of teaching heresies…thus it is proof positive that John XXIII – Francis are not now/have never been, true Popes.  
     
    Pope Pius XII, Mystici Corporis Christi, June 29, 1943:  
     
    22. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. “For in one spirit” says the Apostle, “were we all baptized into one Body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free.” 17 As therefore in the true Christian community there is only one Body, one Spirit, one Lord, and one Baptism, so there can be only one faith. 18 And therefore if a man refuse to hear the Church let him be considered — so the Lord commands — as a heathen and a publican19 It follows that those are divided in faith or government cannot be living in the unity of such a Body, nor can they be living the life of its one Divine Spirit.  
     
    23. Nor must one imagine that the Body of the Church, just because it bears the name of Christ, is made up during the days of its earthly pilgrimage only of members conspicuous for their holiness, or that it consists only of those whom God has predestined to eternal happiness. it is owing to the Savior’s infinite mercy that place is allowed in His Mystical Body here below for those whom, of old, He did not exclude from the banquet. For not every offense, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church,as does schism or heresy or apostasy.  
     
    31. Just as at the first moment of the Incarnation the Son of the Eternal Father adorned with the fullness of the Holy Spirit the human nature which was substantially united to Him, that it might be a fitting instrument of the Divinity in the sanguinary work of the Redemption, so at the hour of His precious death He willed that His Church should be enriched with the abundant gifts of the Paraclete in order that in dispensing the divine fruits of the Redemption she might be, for the Incarnate Word, a powerful instrument that would never fail. For both the juridical mission of the Church, and the power to teach, govern and administer the Sacraments, derive their supernatural efficacy and force of the building up of the body of Christ from the fact that Jesus Christ, hanging on the Cross, opened up to His Church the fountain of those divine gifts, which prevent her from ever teaching false doctrine and enable her to rule them for the salvation of their souls through divinely enlightened pastors and to bestow on them an abundance of heavenly graces. 
     
     

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #10 on: February 20, 2021, 10:05:07 AM »
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  • I wonder IF Roman Catholics came together, mainly among them those who understand the sedevacantist position DID ELECT a Pope;  since Xavier desires it, would He accept this said ɛƖɛctıon as valid and be loyal to the newly elected Pope by sedevacantist, or would he switch his argument in a new direction and voice his negative narrative about the ɛƖɛctıon?

    How about it, Xavier?  


    Online Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #11 on: February 20, 2021, 10:08:39 AM »
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  • The last Pope was really Pope Pius X. 
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Your Friend Colin

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #12 on: February 20, 2021, 07:52:04 PM »
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  • Xavier, why do you feel compelled to come down on sedevacantists so hard?

    If we are truly outside of the Catholic Church, you need not worry, because Vatican Council II taught that non-Catholic religions are a means of salvation.

    Your current leader teaches that God wills a diversity of religions. He prays in the ѕуηαgσgυєs and mosques. He even said that atheists can go to Heaven!  ;) What’s the point of converting us?

    And lastly, the current head of your religion says that “proselytism is solemn non sense” and that your efforts to convert us constitute a “grave sin against ecumenism”. Cut it out, buddy!

    And no, don’t try to say: “Just because he’s a bad dad doesn’t mean he’s not my dad.” Or “He’s weak” Francis isn’t just a morally corrupt man, he is a manifest non-Catholic apostate. He isn’t just weak, he does not profess the Catholic and Apostolic Faith, duh!

    Secondly, don’t even try to compare St. Peter’s denial to Bergoglio’s constant blasphemy, heresy and apostasy. St. Peter was NOT even the Roman Pontiff at the time of the denial. He received the Office and the gift of a never failing Faith AFTER the Resurrection. 

    And your accusation against Pope Marcellinus is most probably a terrible calumny. 


    Offline Yeti

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #13 on: February 20, 2021, 10:47:17 PM »
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  • Regarding your last point, Walters, the story of Pope Marcellinus is a matter of historical fact, not a doctrine of faith or morals. So if a later pope states that Pope Marcellinus offered incense to pagan idols, that is not protected by the Holy Ghost and may be false. Of course, any moral teaching he may be giving by that illustration would be protected, but not the historical account itself.
    .
    And about that historical "fact", there's a lot of doubt surrounding the whole story. I don't have time to do a lot of research right now, but the St. Augustine does not believe it ever happened, according to Wikipedia (sorry to quote Wikipedia, but you can look up the footnote on St. Augustine's statement if you want to read what he said about this).
    .
    Lastly, doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that a council of bishops, according to Pope Nicholas, (supposedly) held an inquiry over a pope entering a pagan idol and offering incense, and that Paul VI, JP2, B16 and Francis have all done equivalent or worse things for decades now, and no council of bishops has ever held an inquiry on what they did? And also that the Pontiff "confessed his fall". I don't recall any of the Vatican 2 "popes" confessing such a thing. How do you explain this strange discrepancy?

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
    « Reply #14 on: February 20, 2021, 10:53:44 PM »
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  • Your Friend Colin said: If we are truly outside of the Catholic Church, you need not worry, because Vatican Council II taught that non-Catholic religions are a means of salvation.
    .
    To which Walters responded: Vatican II did not teach that.

    .
    My response to Walters: Here's the quote from Unitatis Redintegratio (Vatican 2):
    .

    Quote
    It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.



     

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