Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!  (Read 10714 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2021, 05:52:52 AM »
I just read through some of Drews posts.  He affirms one truth but denies another.  Dogmas are the material rule of faith - since they are the material object of faith - but the infallible authority of the Church is the formal rule, or at least the proximate formal rule.

The formal object of the remote rule of faith is God the Revealer; the material object of the remote rule are all the truths God has publicly revealed, as contained in Scripture and Tradition.

God the Revealer is who we believe by faith; dogmas are what we believe by faith; and the infallible authority of the Divinely instituted Teacher of revealed truths is why we believe them by faith.

Thank you.  We went 30 pages [probably more, I can't recall exactly] trying to argue this very point with Drew.  You sum it up nicely.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
« Reply #66 on: February 24, 2021, 05:54:22 AM »
Agree 100%, as long as it is understood that here, it is the Church that is the Divinely instituted Teacher, not the pope.

:facepalm:

Vatican I teaches otherwise.

So NOW you "agree", after rejecting my having said the very same thing.  Of course, then you slap on that non-Catholic (aka heretical) qualifier.

Vatican I: Pastor Aeternus
Quote
And so, supported by the clear witness of Holy Scripture, and adhering to the manifest and explicit decrees both of our predecessors the Roman Pontiffs and of general councils, we promulgate anew the definition of the ecuмenical Council of Florence, which must be believed by all faithful Christians, namely that the "holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff hold a world-wide primacy, and that the Roman Pontiff is the successor of blessed Peter, the prince of the apostles, true vicar of Christ, head of the whole Church and father and teacher of all Christian people. To him, in blessed Peter, full power has been given by our lord Jesus Christ to tend, rule and govern the universal Church. All this is to be found in the acts of the ecuмenical councils and the sacred canons."
...
That apostolic primacy which the Roman Pontiff possesses as successor of Peter, the prince of the apostles, includes also the supreme power of teaching.
...
Then there is the definition of the Council of Florence: "The Roman Pontiff is the true vicar of Christ, the head of the whole Church and the father and teacher of all Christians; and to him was committed in blessed Peter, by our lord Jesus Christ, the full power of tending, ruling and governing the whole Church."
...
[T]heir [the Popes'] apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this See of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: "I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren."

So your opinion is heretical, the assertion that the Pope is not "the Divinely Instituted Teacher".

Note also the last part which states that the See of Peter remains "unblemished by any error".  Good luck with that one, Stubborn.

This further backs up my repeated assertion that your ecclesiology is nothing short of heretical.


Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
« Reply #67 on: February 24, 2021, 06:11:27 AM »
Can any R&R Catholic affirm with a straight face the teaching of Vatican I that the Holy See "remains unblemished by any error" after the disaster of Vatican II and the entire post-Vatican II Magisterium, including Amoris Laetitia?

THIS is the argument for sedevacantism, that this degree of error and corruption in the Magisterium is incompatible with the promises of Our Lord.  THIS is the truth that Archbishop Lefebvre CLEARLY affirmed in that audio that was posted.  Unfortunately, MOST modern R&R rejects it and is basically heretical on that account [I make exceptions for a position like that of Fr. Chazal or that articulated by the Archbishop himself].

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
« Reply #68 on: February 24, 2021, 06:51:16 AM »
:facepalm:

Vatican I teaches otherwise.

So NOW you "agree", after rejecting my having said the very same thing.  Of course, then you slap on that non-Catholic (aka heretical) qualifier.

Vatican I: Pastor Aeternus
So your opinion is heretical, the assertion that the Pope is not "the Divinely Instituted Teacher".

Note also the last part which states that the See of Peter remains "unblemished by any error".  Good luck with that one, Stubborn.

This further backs up my repeated assertion that your ecclesiology is nothing short of heretical.
No one has ever denied the pope is the teacher, your problem is that you believe him to be the originator of teachings. Sorry for snuffing out your "ah ha" moment.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: To Sedes: Time's Running Out to Elect a New Pope!!!
« Reply #69 on: February 24, 2021, 06:59:46 AM »
Can any R&R Catholic affirm with a straight face the teaching of Vatican I that the Holy See "remains unblemished by any error" after the disaster of Vatican II and the entire post-Vatican II Magisterium, including Amoris Laetitia?

THIS is the argument for sedevacantism, that this degree of error and corruption in the Magisterium is incompatible with the promises of Our Lord.  THIS is the truth that Archbishop Lefebvre CLEARLY affirmed in that audio that was posted.  Unfortunately, MOST modern R&R rejects it and is basically heretical on that account [I make exceptions for a position like that of Fr. Chazal or that articulated by the Archbishop himself].
I can affirm it. Why? Because the Holy Ghost was promised to the successors of St. Peter whenever they define a doctrine ex cathedra - if you don't read the whole thing in context, you'll end up thinking it means, as you demonstrate, something it does not say.

That is the argument for sedeism? Then they have no argument.