Hold on. DeMaistre, stop making dramatic pronouncements and just take some time out to think.
Actually, my cousin was pestering me to get off the computer.
First, please give us this Catherine of Siena quote where she talks about serving the Pope even if he is a devil. Without even knowing the quote I can tell you almost 100% that the gist of it, the thinking behind it is, "The office of Pope is not dependent on the personal morality of the one holding it."
Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honour Christ if we honour the Pope; we dishonour Christ if we dishonour the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him. ~ Saint Catherine of Sienna
I have to take issue even with Dawn here, who I almost always agree with. She says that these can't be Popes because they are protecting child molesters... Actually, EVEN THEN they could still be Popes. Popes in the Middle Ages, which sedes tend to idealize, protected priests who were living openly with women. There is even a term for this: Concubinage! Even Popes with heroic reputations like Pius X did next to nothing to clean house and expunge the creeping liberal rot.
That's why I say that only a disgusting heretic can be declared anti-pope.
I want to make this very clear. The reason I hold the sedevacantist position is not because of idealism. The Church has never been perfect IN ITS MEMBERS. It is only perfect in itself, as the spotless Bride of Christ. So Catherine of Siena is right to support the Pope even if he were a child-molesting, nun-raping brute. But would she support someone who WASN'T EVEN CATHOLIC? And therefore is not Pope at all? Be careful before you answer, or the ghost of Catherine might give you a painful noogie.
I am following...
The Catholic Church is God's means of harvesting souls, of collecting the wheat. Paul VI -- who you are absolutely right in your assessment of -- was a revolutionary, but he knew the source of the Church's power, that it was One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. Being the devil that he was, he wanted to eliminate its ONENESS. Suddenly other religions became acceptable, seeds of the truth, or alternate paths to heaven. Muslims share the same God as Catholics. The Old Covenant with the Jews was never rescinded.
Do you see what he did here? He de-boned the whole chicken!
Jesus came precisely to DESTROY the Old Covenant. God, from this point on, worked ONLY through the Catholic Church. It is that new covenant that gives the Catholic Church its unique mission and power. The way the fake Popes talk now, the Catholic Church is a really good Church, and it certainly has a special longevity that sets it apart -- but others are good too, and besides, times have changed. How do you convert someone to that? It's like taking the air out of your car tires and then trying to go for a drive.
I understand.
Imagine a missionary in Japan in the 19th century. He is preaching to the heathens and telling them that God has come in the flesh. He tells them they MUST convert to God's One Church, the Catholic Church, to be saved. His preaching is firm, stable and coherent.
Now imagine yourself trying to convert someone to the Church under Ratzinger. Just feel how unsolid it has become, how vague. It is like the difference between a Sealy Posturepedic Mattress and a waterbed. What would you say to this African/Japanese/Indian man to convert him, how would you make him feel the urgency of converting? This false "Catholic" Church now is an indefinable SOMETHING, held together by vague self-worship ( 666, the cult of man ) and feel-good vibes, barely any different than an Agape Church.
I know this all to well.
There is no urgency to it, no feeling that you must NECESSARILY accept its teachings for your salvation. No one even knows what its teachings are anymore -- except that the one sin is to be traditional! The Vatican II "priests" and "bishops" all, to a man, try to encourage this relativism and apathy. That is why they stop people from kneeling or being reverent in any way. It's why they harass people who want a Latin Mass and then give them a fake one to shut them up.
I've had a lot of experience with family members discouraging me to go to Latin Mass.
DeMaistre, don't tangle yourself up. If you go back into this non-Church, this impostor Church, this creature of alchemy and taxidermy, you can no longer say it is the ONE true Church because the new non-Popes themselves do not even teach that! Follow your own logic to its conclusion. If these are Popes you must believe their teaching. But to try to follow their teaching and still remain Catholic is an impossibility.
The devil wants you to be as schizophrenic as he is and anyone remaining with these non-Popes must be necessarily that -- DOUBLE-MINDED and TWO-FACED. Hence, Vatican TWO is in direct opposition with the ONE Catholic Church, who must be the sedevacantists. We know the Church will last until the end, but we also know that almost no one will be left who still keeps the faith ( "When the Son of Man returns to Earth, will He find faith?" )
I realise that, that is why I am having trouble reconciling the St. Catherine quote with the current situation.
The reason why so few believe the truth, is because the truth is so unbelievable. Could all these people really be deluded? What about that nice girl who fixes roast beef sandwiches at Subway, is she going to burn eternally? What about all those pretty young couples, aren't they innocent? And all those people in Africa, in Asia?
I've been thinking of that lately, and it is amazing isn't it? That almost everybody that you meet will go to Hell.
Make no mistake -- what is happening is HIGHLY disturbing and sickening. Words cannot express just how awful it is. But this is the hour of the devil, prophesied from all eternity. It doesn't mean that God isn't fair. Think -- ANY of these people could do what we're doing and research. They have the Internet. They know about traditional Catholics from Mel Gibson.
NO ONE CARES. HUMANITY IS IN REBELLION.
You must understand that we wouldn't BE here unless, over centuries, people had ceased to pay attention to the truth. First they want relaxed rules. Then they want to believe that all men are saved. Eventually they are piling one mortal sin on top of the other without fear. And then it's over. "Therefore God shall send them the operation of error, to believe lying."
Here you are completely right. No one cares about religion anymore. Even the seemingly "pious" ones often give one hand to the world.
You worry about the people in Asia. But what about all the Asian people here? Why are you one of the handful of Vietnamese sedevacantists? Because THEY DON'T CARE. I am Polish-Spanish: Why are the Poles, this great Catholic people, literally kissing the star of David on a Jєωιѕн tombstone of a "h0Ɩ0cαųst" victim after filing out of "Church" ( they do this in Poland )? THEY DON'T CARE. Why have the Spanish, another great Catholic nation, less than one hundred years after the glorious Spanish cινιℓ ωαr, become nothing but a nation of fornicators and club-hoppers? THEY DON'T CARE.
I agree. But in Viet Nam, infidels are converting to the Novus Ordo faith in great numbers, some walking for days on end to go to "Mass" on Holy Days. Recently there were massive Catholic protests in Ha Noi (wait no, about a year ago) that was shut down by who? That Vatican. I mean, if I actually learned my language to enough to translate a few books into Vietnamese, and find a way to distribute them, then I am sure that I can convert more than a few people. Wait until they know that these men are Communists that have sold them out.
This is the mystery of iniquity, of apostasy. Take it from me. I thought I was going to save the world until I understood. You cannot stop it. It is part of God's plan. We can't interfere, we can't change anything. We are here to observe, to pray and to suffer -- that is it.
You job is also to evangelize. I'm not out to save the world, just to try to help people of good will that live under the spiritual fog that is so common today.
Topic: To all the "sedes" (Read 5681 times)