Author Topic: To all the "sedes" (Read 5690 times)

Prodinoscopus · « **Reply #10 on:** June 20, 2009, 05:22:18 PM »

Quote from: St. Catherine of Siena

Foolish then, is he who departs from the Vicar of Christ Crucified, who has the keys of the Blood, or who goes against him ... Even though the pope were satan incarnate himself, I may not lift up my head against him, but I must always humble myself, and beg for the Blood as a mercy, for in no other wise can I obtain a part of it ...

"Satan incarnate himself" -- that characterization would include just about any evil thing, don't you think?

Unfortunately, I cannot provide an exact citation for the above quote, and therefore I'm not able to fully vouch for its authenticity. I've seen it a number of times. Perhaps someone else can provide a citation.

The quote is often used by "conservative" Catholics against SSPXers, the argument being that you cannot say anything critical about the Pope.

Dulcamara · « **Reply #11 on:** June 20, 2009, 09:04:16 PM »

Quote from: DeMaistre

We must all abjure from our schism. Our position is indefensible.

Even if the Pope were Satan incarnate, we ought not to raise our heads against him, but calmly lie down to rest on his bosom. He who rebels against our Father is condemned to death, for that which we do to him we do to Christ: we honour Christ if we honour the Pope; we dishonour Christ if we dishonour the Pope. I know very well that many defend themselves by boasting: "They are so corrupt, and work all manner of evil!" But God has commanded that, even if the priests, the pastors, and Christ-on-earth were incarnate devils, we be obedient and subject to them, not for their sakes, but for the sake of God, and out of obedience to Him. ~ Saint Catherine of Sienna

I realise that I have lost all my standing now, but I must follow Christ and not men. I apologise for my arrogance.

:applause: :dancing-banana: :applause:

Congrats on your decision.

Indeed in the Bible we read something like that, too. It is easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and especially when it brings shame on us all the way so many have been acting in Rome... however, that doesn't do away with their office, and while it may be hard to swallow that distinction, the office and authority are from God, even if men sometimes soil them by bad lives.

It's a bitter and humiliating thing to follow (in all that is RIGHT, not sinful) a hierarchy that behaves as this one does... but then there is the matter of the office or authority, and that is another matter. However it helps to remember that no one has the authority to command us to sin. Thus, we need not obey any sinful commands or suggestions, regardless of the office. (Thus, we aren't bound to be NO Catholics.) As for the humiliation of being associated with men who do such things as these have, it helps to remember the cross, and the humiliations of Christ being condemned like a criminal.

As for looking down on you or thinking less of you... I wouldn't "triumph" over or look down on anyone who turns out of the sede path. Rather, I would give thanks to God that another person has chosen well by His grace. Which one of us has never been wrong? Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Personally, I hope every sede reconsiders, as much as I hope every non-Catholic reconsiders. I want everyone to go to heaven and to live the holiest possible life on earth, and to possess as much of the truth as possible even in this life. I would have no joy or glee in knowing any soul persevered in anything else and perhaps endangered or lost their souls. (THAT would be pride... and the worst kind. To wish someone damnation.)

Hope you persevere in your decision. God will give you the strength, I'm sure. But if it weren't for the same grace, who knows what any one of us might believe. We could have been atheists even!

DeMaistre · « **Reply #12 on:** June 20, 2009, 09:26:48 PM »

Quote

I shouldn't have flown off the handle like that. DeMaistre, do you care to elucidate what happened between today and yesterday, when you were flinging words like "apostate" at Ratzinger?

I've been torn between the two paths for a long time. I've also had a very rough...and equally sinful night.

Quote

You sympathize rightly with the many people of the Asian lands who are under Ratzinger. Are you terrified by the idea that these masses of Asians are doomed and you cannot believe this is true? I've heard of this happening before. People just lose the ability to believe that SO MANY people are in a delusion and lost. But we read in Daniel that towards the end the devil will prosper to an extent that is unbelievable. He will have power over all the nations.

Yes, and its disgusting. I wish that today, there was some visible enemy, so that we could take up the cross and go to war with them, but it is not so. The only weapon that can be wielded against this enemy is prayer.

Quote

There are sede enclaves in Japan and for all we know there are also enclaves in China and Vietnam as well. Need I remind you that it was a Vietnamese man, Abp. Thuc, who was one of the fiercest opponents of the heretics?

I am particularly proud of His Lordship, and His Lordship's brother, Ngo Dinh Diem, who was the best leader Viet Nam ever had. He had Viet Nam consecrated to the Sacred Heart and held the Catholic Faith as the only priveledged religion of the state.

Quote

Let the dead bury their dead -- you can't save those in China or anywhere else by throwing yourself away. God gave you extraordinary graces and you are stomping on them.

What is from God? Was it me "converting" to sedevacantism? Was it me reconsidering now? How can I know?

Quote

I know that it's very tempting to make grand public resolutions in these forums -- I've done it many times. I'm very good at projecting my inner dramas. It's probably not a harmful thing, yet it is an exercise with limited value. At best, it helps us to think things through and get (sometimes) helpful feedback; at worst, it feeds our vanity. Something to think about. What would St. Alphonsus say?

Its not about vanity. St. Alphonsus would say that I am horrible sinner and that I will go to Hell if I don't change.

Quote

Hold on. Do any of you really think that St. Catherine ever could have contemplated men such as these who aid and cover up for beasts raping little boys in the confessional? Such men who would tell the Chinese underground to bow down and worship Satan's own religion of Communism? She would never tell us to follow these men for they are leading souls to hell.

I've been saying all along that these men, Ratzinger, Benedict XVI, whoever he is, I have no idea anymore, are quite literally incarnate devils. I used to believe that Paul VI was literally either possesed by countless demons or an incarnate devil. St. Catherine is saying that even if the pope were Satan incarnate, we would still have to obey him, not for his sake but for God's.

This is so confusing. The evidence for the heresy of these men is so evident, and Canon Law says that they are excommunicated. They are anti-popes, maybe even demons, but I must bow my head and submit to them.

Prodinoscopus · « **Reply #13 on:** June 20, 2009, 11:08:45 PM »

DeMaistre,

St. Catherine (assuming that the quote attributed to her is accurate) is not saying that we must obey a bad pope in everything, whether he is carving up and eating golden retriever puppies or saying that Jews and Muslims worship the same God as Catholics. She says, rather, that we must never lift up our head against him. That is, we must be humble in his presence, because he is Christ's Vicar on earth, no matter what a scoundrel he might be. If we feel compelled to correct an erring Pope, we should do so with our eyes averted.

I think that you're on the right track here. Stay the course!

Prodinoscopus · « **Reply #14 on:** June 20, 2009, 11:24:06 PM »

By the way, I have bookmarked Catholic Tradition under my favorites. While there, I noticed the complete quote from St. Catherine. Very sobering. She corrected the Pope, firmly, yet as a loving daughter. A lesson there for all of us: sedes, SSPXers, and disaffected exiles in Novus Ordo land.

God bless!

Author Topic: To all the &quot;sedes&quot; (Read 5690 times)

Author Topic: To all the "sedes" (Read 5690 times)