Author Topic: Tired of being forced into home-aloneism (Read 5852 times)

Anna1959 · « **on:** October 26, 2011, 04:46:44 PM »

Home-aloneism is a dangerous state to be in..many have fallen away from the Faith entirely from being in it, and the Devil knows how to use it to encourage that.

My problem is, there are NO acceptable TLMs anywhere near me. The closest is over an hour by car, and I don't know how to drive or know anyone currently who can help me get there. So, I watch the TLM at http://www.sgg,org every Sunday morning. But I know NO Traditional Catholics near me (sede).

Its one thing to choose to be a home aloner, another to be one because there is no other alternative.

The only TLM anywhere near me is at a novus ordo church...its basically novus ordoites who go to "see what its like".

What should I do? I pray my Rosary every day, and I feel so much closer to God that way than even when I did have a valid TLM to assist at, years ago. I feel the Blessed Mother is there for me, more so than I ever did before.

I just CAN'T BELIEVE that living in a MAJOR city, with a large Catholic population, has NO valid TLM!! :really-mad2:

Vladimir · « **Reply #1 on:** October 26, 2011, 05:04:14 PM »

If you aren't against "una cuм", find an Eastern rite church.

Is there no public transportation that you could use? City bus, etc?

Caminus · « **Reply #2 on:** October 26, 2011, 05:43:49 PM »

Quote from: Anna1959

Home-aloneism is a dangerous state to be in..many have fallen away from the Faith entirely from being in it, and the Devil knows how to use it to encourage that.

My problem is, there are NO acceptable TLMs anywhere near me. The closest is over an hour by car, and I don't know how to drive or know anyone currently who can help me get there. So, I watch the TLM at http://www.sgg,org every Sunday morning. But I know NO Traditional Catholics near me (sede).

Its one thing to choose to be a home aloner, another to be one because there is no other alternative.

The only TLM anywhere near me is at a novus ordo church...its basically novus ordoites who go to "see what its like".

What should I do? I pray my Rosary every day, and I feel so much closer to God that way than even when I did have a valid TLM to assist at, years ago. I feel the Blessed Mother is there for me, more so than I ever did before.

I just CAN'T BELIEVE that living in a MAJOR city, with a large Catholic population, has NO valid TLM!! :really-mad2:

What do you mean by "no valid TLM"?

Matthew · « **Reply #3 on:** October 26, 2011, 05:54:58 PM »

Good question -- I hope you're not rejecting an SSPX Mass.

Plenty of sedevacantists have no problem with attending their Masses. How could they? They are valid Masses, after all.

PereJoseph · « **Reply #4 on:** October 26, 2011, 06:23:58 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Good question -- I hope you're not rejecting an SSPX Mass.

Quote from: Anna1959

The only TLM anywhere near me is at a novus ordo church...its basically novus ordoites who go to "see what its like".

Caminus · « **Reply #5 on:** October 26, 2011, 06:39:09 PM »

That doesn't involve a question of validity. And what should she care about the subjective intentions of either the laity or the priest? Get to a TLM on Sunday, if that's all that is available, then go.

PereJoseph · « **Reply #6 on:** October 26, 2011, 06:53:56 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

That doesn't involve a question of validity. And what should she care about the subjective intentions of either the laity or the priest? Get to a TLM on Sunday, if that's all that is available, then go.

I am just clarifying that, since she is a sedevacantist, she most likely does not believe that the man officiating at the venue in question is actually a priest and that we are not discussing the SSPX.

shin · « **Reply #7 on:** October 26, 2011, 07:06:17 PM »

You have my prayers..

Caminus · « **Reply #8 on:** October 26, 2011, 07:12:55 PM »

Quote from: PereJoseph

Quote from: Caminus
That doesn't involve a question of validity. And what should she care about the subjective intentions of either the laity or the priest? Get to a TLM on Sunday, if that's all that is available, then go.

I am just clarifying that, since she is a sedevacantist, she most likely does not believe that the man officiating at the venue in question is actually a priest and that we are not discussing the SSPX.

Well she should stop using her imagination to guide her spiritual life (I do not mean that in a derogatory manner) and start studying the theology of the sacraments if this is keeping her away from the Mass. Traditional theologians have demonstrated that the new rites are intrinsically or per se valid.

Stephen Francis · « **Reply #9 on:** October 26, 2011, 07:44:38 PM »

Invalid Papal claimant, possibly invalid bishop who ordains Novus presiders (in a changed, invalid rite of ordination) to perform services, not sacrifices, changed words of consecration, and you want us to believe that the Bugnini Masonic service is a TLM? The differences couldn't be clearer between the immemorial Mass of the Church and the so-called mass of John XXIII and later.

Get serious... the Novus Ordo hirelings in the average diocese wouldn't know Tradition if it bit them.

St. John Vianney, pray for us.

Immaculate Heart of Mary, triumph soon.

Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.

LordPhan · « **Reply #10 on:** October 26, 2011, 07:47:03 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

Quote from: PereJoseph
Quote from: Caminus
That doesn't involve a question of validity. And what should she care about the subjective intentions of either the laity or the priest? Get to a TLM on Sunday, if that's all that is available, then go.

I am just clarifying that, since she is a sedevacantist, she most likely does not believe that the man officiating at the venue in question is actually a priest and that we are not discussing the SSPX.

Well she should stop using her imagination to guide her spiritual life (I do not mean that in a derogatory manner) and start studying the theology of the sacraments if this is keeping her away from the Mass. Traditional theologians have demonstrated that the new rites are intrinsically or per se valid.

Sir, they proved that under certain circuмstances, IE: If done as promulgated, they could be valid, but illicit to attend(for the mass). For the Priestly Ordinations, they doubt the validity of most of them which is why they are conditionally reordained if they convert to the true faith and join the SSPX. That is the position of the SSPX.

Caminus · « **Reply #11 on:** October 26, 2011, 08:33:11 PM »

Illicit to attend a diocesan TLM when none other is available? I think what would qualify as a state of necessity where more evil would result if neglected and more good attained if attended. Please cite your source. I concede caution is taken viz. novus ordo priests coming to tradition, but that is a far cry from asserting carte blanche that they are all mere laymen. They are taken on a case by case basis. A review of the ordination rite as properly prescribed as such should be enough to demonstrate validity since the intention is contained in the external administration of the rite, thus it is a question that is reduced to the form. As you admitted, the new rites are per se valid. One may have to do some work in this matter in order to quiet the conscience, but to deprive oneself of the TLM, simply speaking, based on false premises is an injury to oneself.

Caminus · « **Reply #12 on:** October 26, 2011, 08:34:19 PM »

Quote from: Stephen Francis

Invalid Papal claimant, possibly invalid bishop who ordains Novus presiders (in a changed, invalid rite of ordination) to perform services, not sacrifices, changed words of consecration, and you want us to believe that the Bugnini Masonic service is a TLM? The differences couldn't be clearer between the immemorial Mass of the Church and the so-called mass of John XXIII and later.

Oh, be quiet.

PereJoseph · « **Reply #13 on:** October 26, 2011, 08:37:10 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

Quote from: PereJoseph
Quote from: Caminus
That doesn't involve a question of validity. And what should she care about the subjective intentions of either the laity or the priest? Get to a TLM on Sunday, if that's all that is available, then go.

I am just clarifying that, since she is a sedevacantist, she most likely does not believe that the man officiating at the venue in question is actually a priest and that we are not discussing the SSPX.

Well she should stop using her imagination to guide her spiritual life (I do not mean that in a derogatory manner) and start studying the theology of the sacraments if this is keeping her away from the Mass.

I cannot be sure without her confirmation, but I assume that it is precisely her study of the sacraments that leads her to believe that the 1968 episcopal consecration ceremony results in an invalid sacrament.

Quote

Traditional theologians have demonstrated that the new rites are intrinsically or per se valid.

I do not believe this to be the case and won't simply take your word for it. If you have the texts or links to the texts of these theologians that "demonstrate" (as you say) the per se validity of all of the new rites, especially the 1968 rite of episcopal consecration, I would like to read them.

I do not want to derail this thread, so if you do have the links or files, please start a new thread or else send them to me in a private message.

LordPhan · « **Reply #14 on:** October 26, 2011, 08:40:53 PM »

Quote from: Caminus

Illicit to attend a diocesan TLM when none other is available? I think what would qualify as a state of necessity where more evil would result if neglected and more good attained if attended. Please cite your source. I concede caution is taken viz. novus ordo priests coming to tradition, but that is a far cry from asserting carte blanche that they are all mere laymen. They are taken on a case by case basis. A review of the ordination rite as properly prescribed as such should be enough to demonstrate validity since the intention is contained in the external administration of the rite, thus it is a question that is reduced to the form. As you admitted, the new rites are per se valid. One may have to do some work in this matter in order to quiet the conscience, but to deprive oneself of the TLM, simply speaking, based on false premises is an injury to oneself.

I'll grab my sources from SSPX.org which is where these ones are, later when I'm not busy. But is it not true that it is forbidden to attend a mass by a Priest who's sacraments are doubtful? That is the reasoning that SSPXers do not attend the Thuc Line. If you know a TLM is said by a good valid Priest who is not modernist you can attend but it is better to stay home and keep the day holy then to attend a Mass that could put your soul or faith in danger. Who knows what they are preaching, most would not be preaching tradition.

P.S. The case by case basis thing was what I was trying to say, the rite for Priests was ruled to be valid if said as per the way it was promulgated, but they know of many Priests ordinations that are invalid, one that was stated in the article on the validity of the rite involved people invoking Luther. So they investigate to see whether they are valid Priests or not.

Naturally one cannot just use a 'what if' scenario, because that is negative doubt but I think we can agree that the Crisis and it's nature provides a positive doubt as to the Diocesan TLM's.