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Author Topic: Thuc Novus Ordo pics  (Read 101559 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: Thuc Novus Ordo pics
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 06:35:38 PM »
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  • Don't post that Lienart bullshit on this forum, unless it's an ABRIDGED very short version, FOLLOWED BY a clear and firm refutation of the nonsense.
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    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Thuc Novus Ordo pics
    « Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 06:41:37 PM »
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  • +Lienart's having been a Freemason was proven, and not just speculation, and +Lefebvre admitted it on two different occasions.  If one were to believe Scuмmage's fake made-up theology, there's an extraordinariliy high chance the +Lefebvre was never a valid priest, and therefore we've had millions of invalid Sacraments among Traditionalists.  Except of course that this buffoon simply made it up.

    I'm not a theologian, so I can't argue the point of "internal intention" one way or the other. I don't know if the Church supplies in such cases.

    But I know this: God would never allow the Catholic Church to be reduced in number to 5 or 10 persons. And he wouldn't allow 80% of the lifeboats (SSPX and SSPX-line) to be destroyed, in a Crisis that was to last 55+ more years. God gives everyone a chance to save his soul. He would possibly, even LIKELY, require souls to put in more serious effort, some sacrifices (less frequent Masses, long drives) but He would NEVER make it morally impossible for the VAST MAJORITY of Catholics of good will, even the ones aware of the Crisis.

    Remember, +Lefebvre isn't just the SSPX, but all the priests who left it over the years, the Resistance, SSPV, etc.

    And when God raises up a saint, with the hand of Providence heavy upon him, such that anyone with the Faith can see the hand of God in his life and career, it is morally impossible for that man to be a fountainhead of hundreds of fake priests, hundreds of thousands of invalid sacraments, etc. Yes, I know the Novus Ordo has validity issues. But it's the Novus Ordo (looks Lutheran), not the Tridentine Mass. Souls of good will, those seeking God first, those with zero human respect CAN wake up to the reality and save themselves. There are things God just wouldn't allow. God is good. Even in temptations and trials, God *always* gives us an "out". He gives us a fighting chance. No one is going to convince me EVER that God would participate in a conspiracy of deceit, with no chance of seeing the problem, or no way out.

    As Tom Nelson taught me, you don't have a man who loves his wife, pays his taxes, mows his lawn, takes care of his kids, goes to Church, but he's a hitman.

    It seems near-blasphemous (minus the "near") to me, to suggest that God is less than competent. He could guide +Lefebvre to perfectly be trained, prepared, and positioned to play all these important roles in this age of the Church -- but OOPS! somehow we forgot to figure out a way to make him a real priest/bishop. May God forgive you for what you are implying about Him!

    For every 10,000 Trads, about 8,000 of them have +Lefebvre to indirectly thank for their Mass. Just a rough estimate, but I'm not off by much.
    Even many sede groups have +Lefebvre to thank somewhat, because the latter brought attention and media coverage to the existence of the Traditional Movement. Many who are sede "today" weren't warming the pews at a sede chapel originally.
    (I'm excluding Motu/Indult groups here, because they are a different kettle of fish. "Latin Mass Catholics". They are not really Trad, in the classic sense. They don't believe in a Crisis in the Church, just that the Latin Mass is "healthier" than the McDonald's of the Novus Ordo. Also, they have no problem with the Conciliar Church/authority/Orders aside from the Novus Ordo Mass itself.)
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    Online WorldsAway

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    Re: Thuc Novus Ordo pics
    « Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 07:02:12 PM »
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  • +Leinart is only being brought up to prove a point to Tom here. If there is anyone who we could say would be internally "withholding intention" it would be a Freemason. They don't intend to do what the Church does, they want to destroy the Church. But, as +Leinart ordained +Lefebvre with the proper matter and form, the intention to do what the Church does is presumed. 
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

    Offline MWCnABQ

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    Re: Thuc Novus Ordo pics
    « Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 07:23:01 PM »
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  • The only one I know of in the Traditional Catholic Movement, who has a problem w/ Abp. Lefebvre (because of Leinart),  is the Franciscan Group in Rochester, NY. 

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Thuc Novus Ordo pics
    « Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 07:51:19 PM »
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  • Once a priest always a priest. A defrocked apostate priest can confess and say a valid mass, why wouldn't a validly consecrated apostate bishop be able to ordain a priest? I don't personally know but I can't see why not.
    We aren’t supposed to be anywhere near someone who fails to repent.  We aren’t suppose to worship with others who aren’t in a state of grace.  If they reject Jesus, we aren’t to allow them into our house.
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: Thuc Novus Ordo pics
    « Reply #35 on: Today at 01:24:02 AM »
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  • +Leinart is only being brought up to prove a point to Tom here. If there is anyone who we could say would be internally "withholding intention" it would be a Freemason. They don't intend to do what the Church does, they want to destroy the Church. But, as +Leinart ordained +Lefebvre with the proper matter and form, the intention to do what the Church does is presumed.
    Most theologians said becoming a Bishop covers for it.

    It is not a given that Freemason clergy are trying to withhold intention. Many of them joined for ambition. They are not necessarily privy to the outright destructive intentions of Masonry in the direct way you describe. Bishop Williamson talks about this in his conferences on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. You should listen to them.

    Compare that with the very credible reporting that Thuc withheld his intention deliberately.
    Now there is some arguments that is not true, but the point is that we cant verify that because he is dead. 

    So in the meantime, we need to stay away, and conditionally ordain those who seek it.

    Online WorldsAway

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    Re: Thuc Novus Ordo pics
    « Reply #36 on: Today at 05:26:13 AM »
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  • Most theologians said becoming a Bishop covers for it.
    I'm pretty sure it's the exact opposite. :fryingpan: That is the minority position. The form explicitly refers to the episcopal candidate as a priest, and speaks of the candidates priestly ministry being "completed" or brought to a "fullness".

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    It is not a given that Freemason clergy are trying to withhold intention. Many of them joined for ambition. They are not necessarily privy to the outright destructive intentions of Masonry in the direct way you describe. Bishop Williamson talks about this in his conferences on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ. You should listen to them.

    Yeah, a Catholic priest and then bishop and then cardinal wouldn't be aware of the popes pronouncements against Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ and would become a 30-degree Freemason and attend black masses purely out of "ambition". Big cope

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    Compare that with the very credible reporting that Thuc withheld his intention deliberately.

    The Angelus: "Erm, +Thuc said this and that. Source? What's a source?"

    Tom: "This is very credible reporting, gentlemen!"

    Massive cope

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    Now there is some arguments that is not true, but the point is that we cant verify that because he is dead.
    And there you have it, the truth slipped out! Tom admits that what was said in The Angelus cannot be verified.

    Do you know a word for an unverified story about someone that provides no evidence, Tom? A rumor. Hearsay. Gossip. None of these things can establish positive doubt regarding +Thuc's ordinations and consecrations. You shot yourself in the foot Tommy

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    So in the meantime, we need to stay away, and conditionally ordain those who seek it.

    See above, Tom. You're cooked :laugh2:


    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.