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Author Topic: Thuc-line priests?  (Read 5442 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Thuc-line priests?
« Reply #40 on: November 22, 2021, 08:15:38 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on November 22, 2021, 07:53:31 AM
Anyway, supposing it did happen, Fr. Cekada cites good authorities to conclude it would be of no account as regards validity:

http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/Ord1-Hand.pdf

Eastern Rites have always used one hand for ordinations to the priesthood, and the Roman Rite used one hand for several centuries in the official Pontificale.  Case closed.  Father Kelly/Bishop just liked using this as a weapon against Father/Bishop Dolan, and then to be consistent he had to apply the same thing to Father/Bishop Williamson (who was ordained the same year).  This incident was well known among The Nine from the very beginning and yet Father Kelly had no problem working alongside Father Dolan for many years ... until the latter got involved with the +Thuc line.

Bishop Kelly's "arguments" always have to be taken with a grain of salt.  Then-Father Sanborn told me that after Father Cekada presented evidence to the group about the validity of the +Thuc lines, Father Kelly didn't disagree with the substance, and yet he said:  "We can't say they're valid because people might go to them."
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Thuc-line priests?
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2021, 08:17:04 AM »
Quote from: andy on November 22, 2021, 08:04:41 AM
Even if there were no Father Williamson, it is the consecration was invalid, we do have Bishop Williamson as an episcopal consecration brings back diaconate and priesthood in a single sacrament.

But you don’t even need to go that route in the first place:

Fr. Cekada cites a 1950 decision of the Holy Office declaring that a one-handed ordination is certainly valid (a ruling Rome had given many times prior).

See section 8 beginning at the bottom of p.14.
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Thuc-line priests?
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2021, 08:18:36 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on November 22, 2021, 08:14:34 AM
#1) that would be doubtful (it's disputed among theologians) whether episcopal consecration would be valid on a man who's not already a priest and #2), you're giving this nonsense far more credibility than it deserves.

Agreed on all points.
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Offline DustyActual

Re: Thuc-line priests?
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2021, 08:19:57 AM »
I have seen a video of a byzantine rite of priestly ordination and the bishop only laid one hand on the ordinand. So im assuming that a bishop doesn't need to lay both hands on the ordinand in order for the ordination to be valid.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Thuc-line priests?
« Reply #44 on: November 22, 2021, 08:22:17 AM »
Quote from: DustyActual on November 22, 2021, 08:19:57 AM
I have seen a video of a byzantine rite of priestly ordination and the bishop only laid one hand on the ordinand. So im assuming that a bishop doesn't need to lay both hands on the ordinand in order for the ordination to be valid.

Yes, the Eastern Rites always used one hand, and the Roman Rite did for a few centuries also.  When this controversy came up, I went to The Catholic University of America and located copies of the Pontificale Romanum over the centuries and found that for several centuries the Roman Rite stipulated "dextram" (the right hand) in the rubrics.
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