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Author Topic: The Errors of John Salza  (Read 4714 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Errors of John Salza
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2024, 11:45:04 AM »
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  • It doesn't surprise me that any Bennyvacantist would not want to debate people. They know they would get taken apart.

    This is not praise of John Salza. He's completely wrong, but I can't deny his intelligence and sophistical ability. And Bennyvacantism is something that could be refuted by the average 10-year-old child.

    Those would not be the terms of the debate, but it would be focused on the Bellarmine Opinion vs. Salza's distortions thereof.  Mazza probably just lacks confidence in general, and would not do well in a debate because of his personality.  Perhaps Salza could debate Father Kramer instead.


    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: The Errors of John Salza
    « Reply #16 on: February 07, 2024, 05:04:04 PM »
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  • Salza changes position depending on the book he currently is hawking. I can’t believe anyone takes this guy seriously.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Errors of John Salza
    « Reply #17 on: February 07, 2024, 10:30:17 PM »
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  • Salza changes position depending on the book he currently is hawking. I can’t believe anyone takes this guy seriously.

    Right, and this distortion of Bellarmine to basically hold the same opinion as Cajetan is utterly absurd and completely self-serving.  I guess Bellarmine didn't know, in rejecting Cajetan's opinion, that he actually held the same opinion himself ... until Salza pointed it out.  Not to mention that every theologian out there has always read Bellarmine the same way, not the Salza way where he warps it into being identical with Cajetan's opinion.

    Now, as Father Chazal point out, people are entitled to hold the Cajetan opinion, though Father Kramer disagrees and holds that it's no longer tenable after Vatican I (I haven't made up my mind on this yet), this does not entitle Salza to butcher Bellarmine to make his opinion identical to that of Cajetan.

    Bellarmine's opinion is clear, and it's made even clearer based on the REASONS he gives for rejecting Cajetan, namely, that ipso facto deposition by God must occur a priori to any judgment by the Church.  At no point can the Church render a judgment against a sitting pope and convict him of heresy.  That's a clear violation of the principle papa a nemine judicandus, which Father Kramer aruges has effectively been elevated to dogma by Vatican I.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Errors of John Salza
    « Reply #18 on: February 07, 2024, 10:44:35 PM »
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    QED.  This succinctly refutes the hundreds of pages of tortured intellectual gymnastics by Salza.  It's very simple.  If the Pope remains the Pope until he's judged guilty of heresy, a Pope is being judged by the Church.  In fact, these the two sentences above [broken up by "It's very simple."] on their own suffice to refute the Salza conclusion, although Father Kramer goes into more detail rebutting the individual points made by Salza, which IMO aren't even entirely necessary ... but was good to see anyway.

    I'm a bit torn on whether Salza's opinion is direct heresy or more along the lines of "proximate to heresy".  Vatican I did not explicitly teach papa a nemine judicandus, but the fact that the Roman Pontiff enjoys supreme jurisdiction, the logical corollary of which would be the papa a nemine judicandus.  Therefore, I find that it's sufficiently removed from a direct contradiction of Vatican I to qualify for the "reduced" note of "proximate to heresy" rather than direct heresy.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Errors of John Salza
    « Reply #19 on: February 07, 2024, 10:52:13 PM »
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  • From these false conclusions, that many of us pointed out were false out of the gate, led ultimately to the next step Salza took, which was to claim that Archbishop Lefebvre, the SSPX, and Traditional Catholics are not Catholic, but that Joe Biden and Nancy Peℓσѕι are.  That's an absurd legalistic view of the Church and a distortion of Church law contrary to all reason and common sense.  Yes, there's a schism between Bergoglio and Traditional Catholics, but it's obvious to any who have the faith that it's Bergoglio who has split off from the Catholic Church, and thus anyone who remains faithful to Catholic Tradition is in schism from Jorge.  Salza therefore defines adherence to Catholic Tradition as now schismatic because Bergoglio has separated himself from it.  It's so ludicrous that it needn't even be dignified with a response.  And yet Salza continued to have his supporters here (e.g. Sean Johnson), as they defend the very same principles as those by which Salza declares THEM to be outside the Church ... while Biden remains a faithful son of the Catholic Church.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Errors of John Salza
    « Reply #20 on: February 07, 2024, 10:54:19 PM »
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  • Salza changes position depending on the book he currently is hawking. I can’t believe anyone takes this guy seriously.

    I've started to suspect nefarious intent from Salza, especially after he accepted an award long after his "conversion" to Traditional Catholicism from a Masonic organization.

    Only those take Salza seriously who are hell bent (literally) on rejecting sedevacantism at all costs, Salza who claims that Bergoglio is more Catholic than Archbishop Lefebvre.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Errors of John Salza
    « Reply #21 on: February 07, 2024, 10:57:09 PM »
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