Author Topic: Thuc: Heel or Hero (Read 16153 times)

Trinity · « **Reply #30 on:** June 24, 2010, 08:30:28 AM »

Dawn speaks truth and there is more. The NO no longer has Jesus as they no longer have the power to consecrate the Host. Others here can explain this much better than I can, but I do know He is in the hands of real Catholics who will protect and properly reverence Him. You and I no longer need to rescue Him, just make our obeisances and proper reception of communion.

I vaguely remember a story Bishop Mark once told. On hearing that a tornado had touched down where the Sisters have their convent, His Excellency and Fr. Gregory looked at each other then rushed for the car. They were concerned for the Host. Evidently the Sisters have a chapel at their convent. The tornado had gone between two buildings and done no really bad damage.

So, you see, Jesus is safe; the sacraments are safe. Personally, I feel like I live in the land of milk and honey. My soul grows fat on the CMRI.

Alexandria · « **Reply #31 on:** June 24, 2010, 11:55:40 AM »

What is wrong with me that I find it impossible to believe that Our Lord would abandon a church full of souls? I find it impossible to believe that He would abandon His Presence in the Most Blessed Sacrament for them. Not all of them are shysters; there are some very good people there.

Bottom line for me is this, and it is two-fold:

1. When I say that I am the last one who should have been given the graces to see the truth, I sincerely mean that. It should be more the other way...that I am among the first who would be more readily deceived.

2. If the sedevacantists are wrong, then what? An eternity in hell?

Trinity · « **Reply #32 on:** June 24, 2010, 12:11:29 PM »

Oh, dear. Try this, Alexandria, it was the turning point for me. Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever. If God is indefectible, and we know He is, how is it that He changed His mind at Vatican II? I say the only changes that were made were those of managament. In short, the Holy Ghost no longer heads the Vatican.

Belloc · « **Reply #33 on:** June 24, 2010, 01:55:59 PM »

reading through this still, but it still catches one-that those that Thuc ordained and owned up to ordainging, were a mixed lot and seems questionable why he would ordain-again, causes questions of naivete vs senility vs gullability....granted some where godo liars, maybe, but was there no qualifications for ordaination? no exams, proof of study? nothing?

I am a bit more sympathetic in reading this and granted, ahve not finished it all yet, but still seems to re-enforce some strong doubts about the happenings......

Belloc · « **Reply #34 on:** June 24, 2010, 02:02:53 PM »

well, finished reading and still nothing is overly clear-again, someone comes to him wanting consecration and for a a few questions-gets it???

ABL noted necessity of actions and canon laws. But the SSPX priests were interviewed, accepted to a seminary, trained and observed, had regular tests,etc and then after period of training, then ordained after rigourous training and weeding......

no "hey,there are a few German friends of yours here with some people to ordain" "oh, sure, why not, come in" sorta stuff.....yes, necesity is at hand, fine with arguement, but appears to have little standards and weeding processes...

Trinity · « **Reply #35 on:** June 24, 2010, 02:40:38 PM »

I've been wondering why you weren't on this thread, Belloc. Thanks for joining us. Check again and see if Thuc was simply obeying his peers or superiors.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #36 on:** June 24, 2010, 02:45:38 PM »

Alexandria says ---> Our Lord would abandon a church full of souls? I find it impossible to believe that He would abandon His Presence in the Most Blessed Sacrament for them. Not all of them are shysters; there are some very good people there.

You may be right, or maybe it only seems they are good people, maybe they are full of Pride, or perhaps if they are as good as they seem to be, God will call them out in His perfect time. Might be that he is using them to give an example. It is not when we lose the Mass and Sacraments that we lose our souls but when we lose the Faith, we are lost.

In referrence to Thuc, it might be that he thought the Church was being so persecuted that he ordained so many hoping some of them would carry on the Faith.
I barely remember hearing a story when I was very small from the good nuns, how during the persecution when Bishops were hiding for their lives, and fear of losing them, they would grab anyone and ordained them priest or Bishops just so the Church would live as God promised.

Don't forget too that Judas was hand picked by God and look what he did.

Belloc · « **Reply #37 on:** June 24, 2010, 02:57:12 PM »

Quote from: Trinity

I've been wondering why you weren't on this thread, Belloc. Thanks for joining us. Check again and see if Thuc was simply obeying his peers or superiors.

some obediance yes, as in going to Spain at behest of ABL, true, but again, the ordinations in southern France post-Econe....none to kosher....also, my question appears un-addressed-why no clarification and stringent standards on ordaining people?? a trusted Geramn friend brings a few people up to the apt and viola, ordination with little checking......

Trinity · « **Reply #38 on:** June 24, 2010, 02:58:28 PM »

Any similar examples from the protestant revolt? The hedge row priests in England? Etc?

Belloc · « **Reply #39 on:** June 24, 2010, 02:59:05 PM »

Quote from: Trinity

In the end Bishop Thuc "got to the bottom of it." A feat even Lafebre never accomplished and how many millions of others haven't accomplished to this day.

ABL did understand all too well, his approach and plan differed.

again, he had a seminary, screened candidates, screened seminarians, had testing, instructions, etc before ordination

Belloc · « **Reply #40 on:** June 24, 2010, 03:01:41 PM »

Quote from: MyrnaM

Alexandria says ---> Our Lord would abandon a church full of souls? I find it impossible to believe that He would abandon His Presence in the Most Blessed Sacrament for them. Not all of them are shysters; there are some very good people there.

You may be right, or maybe it only seems they are good people, maybe they are full of Pride, or perhaps if they are as good as they seem to be, God will call them out in His perfect time. Might be that he is using them to give an example. It is not when we lose the Mass and Sacraments that we lose our souls but when we lose the Faith, we are lost.

In referrence to Thuc, it might be that he thought the Church was being so persecuted that he ordained so many hoping some of them would carry on the Faith.
I barely remember hearing a story when I was very small from the good nuns, how during the persecution when Bishops were hiding for their lives, and fear of losing them, they would grab anyone and ordained them priest or Bishops just so the Church would live as God promised.

Don't forget too that Judas was hand picked by God and look what he did.

Christ as God knew Judas inside and out, Thuc seems not to have taken all that much time nor deliberation-big, big difference! yes persecution, yes times of doubt, etc-still one does not lay hands on with such flimsy reasoning and research of the candidate.....

are you defending Thuc a bit as your Bishop is in the direct line of the questionable canidates? are you being objective?

I am trying to be and thankful for Trinity posting this article, does ally my mind a bit more and given more enlightenment....

Belloc · « **Reply #41 on:** June 24, 2010, 03:03:09 PM »

Quote from: Trinity

Any similar examples from the protestant revolt? The hedge row priests in England? Etc?

huh???

most prirest not trained in England during the initial stages were trained in Doui and other such palces and then snuck back inside Prot Britain....maybe some seminarians went udner groudn to be later ordained, fine, but no real parallel in England 16th C and Thuc issues.....

Trinity · « **Reply #42 on:** June 24, 2010, 03:11:08 PM »

OK That settles that idea. Just going with the idea that desparate times call for desparate measures. We know Thuc was thoroughly Catholic, so perhaps we can deduce his thinking from his being. We also know he was an oriental, so his thinking wouldn't be like ours. In any event, as Catholics we are obliged to give him the most charitible construction.

MyrnaM · « **Reply #43 on:** June 24, 2010, 03:51:56 PM »

Belloc ---> "Christ as God knew Judas inside and out."

Exactly as He knows each and everyone of us, yet He picked him.

Yes of course I am defending Thuc. Our Lord said, you will know them by their fruits, Bishop Pivarunas a good and holy Bishop questionable by people who do not want to change their life style or lose their friends and family from their parishes or churches they attend.

Trinity :applause:

Elizabeth · « **Reply #44 on:** June 24, 2010, 04:06:28 PM »

I would love it if SJB would weigh in on Abp. Thuc, and also Vladimir.