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Author Topic: THREE living bishops consecrated before death of Pius XII  (Read 12747 times)

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FOUR living bishops consecrated before death of Pius XII
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2014, 08:19:21 PM »
Quote from: Mabel
Quote from: JohnAnthonyMarie
Quote from: Matthew
I don't get why these particular Sedes make such a big deal about these last 10 bishops...

We have plenty of valid bishops alive today. What's the problem? Do these particular Sedes have issues with consecrating without a papal mandate or something? A rather funny position for a sedevacantist to have...

Sounds like a "home aloner" group to me. This is how home-aloners justify that the Church hasn't failed. "It hasn't failed. These 10 bishops are still the hierarchy. I just can't get to any of their Masses, so I stay home."

Like I said -- I'm not wishing for evil or anything, but it will be helpful once these bishops have gone on to their reward. Then these home-aloners won't have any excuses to cling to. They will be forced to admit they were wrong, or that the Church has completely failed and the end of the world hasn't come.

THAT is what I look forward to.


This is interesting.  May I inquire to what group of 'sedes' you are referring?

I might hazard a guess that a line is being drawn at the introduction of the 1968 Rite of Episcopal Consecration, making then a distinction between Bishops consecrated before and after this event.  These ten, then, that are here identified, being somehow distinct from Bishops, licit or illicit, consecrated in this same rite, either with or without papal mandate.

SO lets make some top-level grouping of the living Bishops:
1. The ten Bishops listed above.
2. Bishops consecrated by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre and Bishop Antonio de Castro Mayer
  2a. Bishops Fellay, Galarreta, Mallerais , and  Williamson
  2b. Bishop Rangel    
3. Bishops consecrated by Archbishop Ngo Dinh Thuc Pierre Martin
  3a. Bishops Lauriers, Carmona-Rivera, Hernandez (all deceased)
  3b. Bishops McKenna, Munari, Gutiérez, Hillebrand, Pivarunas
  3c. Bishops Bedingfeld, Oravec, Slupski, Sanborn, Vezelis, Miguet, Main, Dolan, Gandara

Please add to the list where information is available.
 


I couldn't possibly sort through them but don't forget the Eastern Rite bishops.


Yes, you are very correct; This list is a quick cut at an initial draft - I can only see so far looking out from under my rock -lol- and would more than welcome additional input from others.  (I vote for gathering them all up, locking them in a room with a stove, ballots, and a box of matches until they elect a leader - rofl)

Offline Ladislaus

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FOUR living bishops consecrated before death of Pius XII
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2014, 08:41:03 PM »
 :facepalm:

They're not talking about validity but about juridical continuity.


FOUR living bishops consecrated before death of Pius XII
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2014, 10:35:43 PM »
John Anthony Marie,

You should know that Bp. Oravec passed ~ 2 weeks ago.  R.I.P.

FOUR living bishops consecrated before death of Pius XII
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2014, 10:43:47 PM »
The fact of the matter is that it is a matter of faith that there will be successors of the apostles until the end of time, so the death of the bishops ordained and appointed during Pius XII's reign means nothing other than they are no longer successors of the apostles-- at which point we would know with certainty of faith that there are successors:

-John XXIII (as pope or through supplied jurisdiction of an antipope)
-Through Paul VI (most likely supplied jurisdiction for an anti pope, esp. after 1965)
-Theoretically (and very theoretically) successors from JPII, BXVI and possibly (though even more theoretically) through Francis
-Eastern Rite Bishops (via jurisdiction supplied to an antipope or not)
-Very, very, very theoretically to traditional bishops-- I would not make this claim but I know that some do
-Secret hierarchy via Red Curtain bishops, Siri, etc.

A teaching which is of the faith cannot be denied.  There are successors to the apostles; we may not know who they are but that hardly means they do not exist.  The Church began in an upper room, it is perfectly conceivably that she will "end" in a lower room, in the catacombs as it were.

FOUR living bishops consecrated before death of Pius XII
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2014, 10:44:44 PM »
Quote from: Mithrandylan
John Anthony Marie,

You should know that Bp. Oravec passed ~ 2 weeks ago.  R.I.P.


Thank you for informing me of his passing.  

    Eternal rest, grant unto him O Lord
    and let perpetual light shine upon him.

    May his soul and the souls of all the faithful departed,
    through the mercy of God, rest in peace.
    Amen.