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Author Topic: Thoughts on the divisions among the nine  (Read 26818 times)

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Offline SerpKerp

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Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
« on: May 29, 2014, 12:57:03 AM »
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  • Of the Nine kicked out from the SSPX, only 3 remain in the successor organization SSPV. There seems to be a lasting grudge between the SSPV and Bishops Dolan and Sanborn and the priests under them. I was wondering what others thoughts were on the intensity of the grudge, and how it relates to your opinion of the nine and SSPV in general?


    Offline songbird

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #1 on: May 29, 2014, 10:41:21 AM »
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  • Go to Pristina Liturgica web site and there were many on this site 6 years ago.


    Offline TKGS

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #2 on: May 29, 2014, 10:58:22 AM »
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  • Quote from: songbird
    Go to Pristina Liturgica web site and there were many on this site 6 years ago.


    There were many what?

    I really don't know a lot about the membership of the SSPV--I thought I had read that the SSPV was essentially disbanded and that there was no plans for successor bishops or priests.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #3 on: May 29, 2014, 01:24:51 PM »
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  • Well, a rifted started within the SSPV over the issue of the Thuc line bishops and the CMRI in the early 90s.

    Since Father Kelly was the "superior", SSPV proper followed his line in maintaining that the Thuc line bishops were of doubtful validity and that the CMRI was not Catholic due to its early dealings with Old Catholics.

    This rift became formal when the dissenting priests (Frs. Dolan, Cekada, Sanborn, and perhaps one or two others) started cooperating with the CMRI and especially when Father Dolan became consecrated a Thuc line bishop.  Father Sanborn also later became a Thuc line bishop.

    Then there somehow arose a personal rift among the remaining SSPV priests.  I don't know the details but at one point Bishop Kelly's nuns up and left from the school in Cincinnati run by Fathers Jenkins and Greenwell.  While they sometimes still cooperate to some extent, there's a very real vibe one gets that they don't get along very well anymore.  That doesn't seem theological but rather personal in nature.  But the details have been kept pretty hush hush.

    Bishop Kelly consecrated Joseph Santay as a bishop for the SSPV.

    Offline SerpKerp

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #4 on: May 29, 2014, 01:47:12 PM »
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  • I thought I had read that the SSPV was essentially disbanded and that there was no plans for successor bishops or priests.[TKGS]

    No I have been attending a SSPV chapel for about a month.


    Offline SerpKerp

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #5 on: May 29, 2014, 01:50:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: songbird
    I thought I had read that the SSPV was essentially disbanded and that there was no plans for successor bishops or priests..


    I have been attending a SSPV chapel for about a month now.

    Offline SerpKerp

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #6 on: May 29, 2014, 01:55:38 PM »
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  • The SSPV chapel is about the only thing traditional in about 6 hours hours driving distance from where I live. It seems really hard to dig up any information about them on the internet. so I was wondering if any one could give any information about them, and the quality of their character as priests.

    Offline Elizabeth

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #7 on: May 29, 2014, 10:14:28 PM »
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  • The sspv split from the congregation of sspv about 5 years ago.  The nuns issued a sudden statement that they were leaving Cincinnati.  It was flabbergating. Nobody was allowed to ask why.  I kept asking; nobody was talking.  A few were speculating. A few laypeople were kind enough to try to answer my questions, to my intense gratitude.

    A layperson very close to the Cincinnati priests told me she was helping them with "damage control".  The bishops in NY wanted the Cincy priests out, and they would not leave.  It was not "God's Will".

     Several months after the sisters left, Fr. Jenkins had a conference to discuss his ideas of what happened.  It was poorly attended, and very bizarre. He kept repeating how Bp. Kelly said to him, "It's all your fault."  It answered no questions as to what actually had caused the sisters to leave.  We brought notebooks to take notes and discuss.  All I wrote was one word: paranoia.  I checked with the teenagers to see what I could get.  They were very forthcoming, but I will not repeat what was said.

    That place is a cult, plain and simple.  Later, when I attempted to ask Bp. Santay for counsel about a serious situation, I had to pass an hour of interrogation by a priest.  I believe the only reason he allowed me to have my second hour of vetting, was because our family had gone to Bp. Santay's Consecration. Finally, he agreed to allow me to speak with the bishop.

    **Going to Santay's Consecration was a bad thing, considering it riled up some important Cincy cult members, but, who could have predicted such a consequence?

    So, I spent the night in prayer before my telephone appointment with Bp. Santay; the situation was dire and he was my last hope.

    I alerted him to certain grave things going on, which he said he knew about, would not intervene, has no control over the goings on, and he refused to pray with me or for me.  That's what woke me up to having been in a cult.  All of the constant secrecy, the taping, the surveillance cameras and the "mental reservations", plausible deniability and paranoia.  

    The next day, I went all wiki leaks here on Cathinfo, because it was the only thing I could think of to protect myself from threats (not from Santay).   A dear friend wanted me to be the sponsor for Confirmation, but the request was denied because I am not Catholic.  :laugh1:  That's a cult.

     To this day, I have no idea why those of the 9 who were locked out of the Rectory by these guys don't speak up.  For all I know, they left as damaged as our family was.  

    Serp Kerp, there is a good reason why you can't dig up information on them on the Internet.  They need secrecy, do not put things in writing anymore because questions will be asked.

      Try reading Mario Derksen's scholarly work on their policies.

    http://www.thucbishops.com/


    Offline Pete Vere

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #8 on: May 29, 2014, 11:56:21 PM »
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  • What was explained to me by one of the nine (I think it was Fr Cekada) several decades ago when I was passing through Cincinnati:

    1 - Fr Kelly wanted the SSPV to be a tightly-controlled group like the SSPX.

    2 - Frs Cekada, Dolan and Sandborn, having felt the SSPX was too rigid, wanted more of a loose association among priests.

    3 - Fr Jenkins sided with Fr Kelly.

    4 - The two sides began drifting apart.

    5 - The controversy over Thuc consecrations came later, as originally Frs Cekada, Dolan and Kelly shared the SSPV position rejecting the validity of the consecrations.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #9 on: May 30, 2014, 12:06:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: Pete Vere
    What was explained to me by one of the nine (I think it was Fr Cekada) several decades ago when I was passing through Cincinnati:

    1 - Fr Kelly wanted the SSPV to be a tightly-controlled group like the SSPX.

    2 - Frs Cekada, Dolan and Sandborn, having felt the SSPX was too rigid, wanted more of a loose association among priests.

    3 - Fr Jenkins sided with Fr Kelly.

    4 - The two sides began drifting apart.

    5 - The controversy over Thuc consecrations came later, as originally Frs Cekada, Dolan and Kelly shared the SSPV position rejecting the validity of the consecrations.


    I was directly interacting with Frs. Sanborn and Cekada at the very beginnings of the split, and the assertion that the Thuc thing came later is false; this notion that SSPV was too tightly controlled was intertwined with and taking place at the same time as the Thuc question.  And, if you ask me, it was the Thuc question and Father Kelly's response to it that engendered the authority/control concerns.

    Offline SerpKerp

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #10 on: May 30, 2014, 12:15:20 AM »
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  • Elizabeth I have been attending Father Skierka's masses in Montana, and
     I have seen anything remotely resembling a cult. In fact I just came back from the feast of the assumption. He has talked to me after every mass about theology and the crisis in the church(The first time for over 2 hours). In the conversations he was far more charitable to the SSPX and the other nine, then the other nine and the SSPX were towards the SSPV. Also everyone there has been very out spoken and friendly towards me (I usually am very shy). In fact they have a summer school program run by the nuns coming up at his main chapel outside of Great Falls, so he would be right in the center of the Cult brainwashing. After mass on Sunday he told me we could talk more about theology and the crisis in the church in depth, so if you  could give me any questions which would revel his cult-hood I would be very happy to ask him then.


    Offline Pete Vere

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #11 on: May 30, 2014, 12:15:44 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    I was directly interacting with Frs. Sanborn and Cekada at the very beginnings of the split, and the assertion that the Thuc thing came later is false; this notion that SSPV was too tightly controlled was intertwined with and taking place at the same time as the Thuc question.  And, if you ask me, it was the Thuc question and Father Kelly's response to it that engendered the authority/control concerns.


    I'm not so sure. I recall Fr Cekada, and I believe Fr Sandborn, initially being strongly opposed the Thuc consecrations.

    Offline Pete Vere

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #12 on: May 30, 2014, 12:19:03 AM »
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  • Quote from: Pete Vere
    Quote from: Ladislaus
    I was directly interacting with Frs. Sanborn and Cekada at the very beginnings of the split, and the assertion that the Thuc thing came later is false; this notion that SSPV was too tightly controlled was intertwined with and taking place at the same time as the Thuc question.  And, if you ask me, it was the Thuc question and Father Kelly's response to it that engendered the authority/control concerns.


    I'm not so sure. I recall Fr Cekada, and I believe Fr Sandborn, initially being strongly opposed the Thuc consecrations.


    On the other hand, Ladislaus, you probably have more of an inside scoop on the issue.

    Offline SerpKerp

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #13 on: May 30, 2014, 12:24:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: Pete Vere
    What was explained to me by one of the nine (I think it was Fr Cekada) several decades ago when I was passing through Cincinnati:

    1 - Fr Kelly wanted the SSPV to be a tightly-controlled group like the SSPX.

    2 - Frs Cekada, Dolan and Sandborn, having felt the SSPX was too rigid, wanted more of a loose association among priests.

    3 - Fr Jenkins sided with Fr Kelly.

    4 - The two sides began drifting apart.

    5 - The controversy over Thuc consecrations came later, as originally Frs Cekada, Dolan and Kelly shared the SSPV position rejecting the validity of the consecrations.


    It didn't end there.

    6. Kelly got secretly ordained by  Bishop Méndez

    7. SGG and company said that it was invalid

    8. SSPV responded with evidence

    9. SGG retracted and accepted that it was valid

    Offline SerpKerp

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    Thoughts on the divisions among the nine
    « Reply #14 on: May 30, 2014, 12:34:10 AM »
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  • Quote from: Pete Vere
    I'm not so sure. I recall Fr Cekada, and I believe Fr Sandborn, initially being strongly opposed the Thuc consecrations.


     Sanborn went to ask Bishop Castro Mayer for ordinations of clergy that the SSPV would train, and Mayer suggested Bishop Des Lauriers.

    I have heard Fathers Jenkins and Cekada each tell thier own version of this story by the way.