Author Topic: This one takes the cake (Read 1829 times)

Matthew · « **on:** December 09, 2010, 04:13:28 PM »

I received this e-mail today:

Quote

I was listening/viewing chant recordings from your site –“Veni Creator Spiritus”---and have a question:

Why the old pictures of the preVatican II Tridentine mass? Are you one of the right-wingers?

Um...because they go together? Gregorian chant simply doesn't go with a modern novus ordo Mass.

The men who wrote the Gregorian chant we have today wouldn't even recognize the novus ordo Mass as being Catholic.

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** December 09, 2010, 04:54:33 PM »

Here is what I wrote to her:

Quote

The old Tridentine Mass matches the Gregorian chant. You don't find the two in different places.
Where you find the Novus Ordo Mass, you generally find less reverent, more sentimental music (with a handful of exceptions -- there are a few conservative groups here and there, which use some Chant)
But even then, it doesn't go together. All Gregorian chant was written when the Tridentine Mass was the *only* Mass.

Gregorian chant was used for countless centuries -- as was the Tridentine Mass.

I suggest you do some research on just how much changed in the Catholic Church after Vatican II. You'd be shocked.

Sincerely,

Matthew

To which she responded:

Quote

Thank you. I love and appreciate the chant for what it was and is.

I’m not shocked with all the changes in the Mass because I grew up with the Tridentine mass and even as a young teacher, I trained altar boys to serve and taught them how to pronounce Latin. (Of course, when Mass began, I, a woman, had to disappear.) I also sang in choirs at Mass and chanted the Divine Office in Latin. I suspect I know more than you do about it. When I obtained my Masters degree in theology, I also wrote numerous papers about the rationale for liturgical changes, etc.

I suppose in my original question I was wondering if the pictures were old (before Vatican II) or if these are pictures of current Masses in the Tridentine form. Thanks.

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** December 09, 2010, 04:57:08 PM »

Note the current of pride/Feminism in her letter --

"My Masters degree in Theology"
"of course I, a woman, had to disappear"
"I suspect I know more than you do about it"
(plus all the talk about her wide experience)

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #3 on:** December 09, 2010, 05:14:44 PM »

So if someone says or attends the TLM today they are a "right-winger" (aka Kook Extremist), but if they did so Pre-VCII they are ok?

Who even uses the term "right-winger" except liberals?

She wrote papers on the changes? Those must be gems.

That someone could like chant and be a liberal seems contradictory. Maybe she likes the music the same way some like new age meditation music. Or perhaps it secretly brings her back to the days of her youth when she felt closer to God through the old Patriarchal Mass though she'll never admit it.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #4 on:** December 09, 2010, 07:38:37 PM »

For starters, like stevus said it is ridiculous to label someone a "right-winger" just because they like the Traditional Latin Mass. And she shouldn't be assuming that she knows more about Latin than Matthew, nor should she be involved in the feminist movement.

Roman Catholic · « **Reply #5 on:** December 10, 2010, 07:04:22 AM »

Quote

I suppose in my original question I was wondering if the pictures were old (before Vatican II) or if these are pictures of current Masses in the Tridentine form. Thanks.

She is articulate and claims to be intelligent. So if that is really what she wanted to ask originally, she could have done so without asking if you are one of the right-wingers.

Belloc · « **Reply #6 on:** December 10, 2010, 07:27:09 AM »

Note she has to throw out the degree thing
I am a Mth candidate too, but withdrew and as no trad college courses online, guess that will be that for me....

Was told by instructor in the class I was going to take this semester that I would either get a "D" or a failing grade if I seriously referenced anything older than 50 yrs old.......throw out the old, I guess....

how old is your emailer? sounds either completely deceived or older feminist that should know better, somewhat-esp with her comments on growing up with the TLM-indicates she rebelled against her TLM communityor morelikely, is much older than you and I, Matthew, and likely a product of the 60's revolution in society and in the Church

Belloc · « **Reply #7 on:** December 10, 2010, 07:28:26 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

Note the current of pride/Feminism in her letter --

"My Masters degree in Theology"
"of course I, a woman, had to disappear"
"I suspect I know more than you do about it"
(plus all the talk about her wide experience)

little humilitythere in her!
what happened to Christ like lowliness..??? Sounds more puffed up, much like Paul soon after converting.....

Belloc · « **Reply #8 on:** December 10, 2010, 07:30:11 AM »

Besides being false paradigms, the terms "right" "winger" "left"-etc are political terms taht do not really have much meaning nor significance in Church affairs.......

are there not Neocons attending TLM? are there not likely Democrats/Obama supporters in TLM communities?

sure...

so, the terms are meaningless and are used as slurs-not very educated for a prideful self-educate!!

umblehay anmay · « **Reply #9 on:** December 10, 2010, 05:30:09 PM »

Quote from: Belloc

Quote from: Matthew
Note the current of pride/Feminism in her letter --

"My Masters degree in Theology"
"of course I, a woman, had to disappear"
"I suspect I know more than you do about it"
(plus all the talk about her wide experience)

little humilitythere in her!
what happened to Christ like lowliness..??? Sounds more puffed up, much like Paul soon after converting.....

I'm still clutching tightly to the bronze medal I won for coming in second place in a humility contest

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2010, 06:07:13 PM »

Quote from: umblehay anmay

Quote from: Belloc
Quote from: Matthew
Note the current of pride/Feminism in her letter --

"My Masters degree in Theology"
"of course I, a woman, had to disappear"
"I suspect I know more than you do about it"
(plus all the talk about her wide experience)

little humilitythere in her!
what happened to Christ like lowliness..??? Sounds more puffed up, much like Paul soon after converting.....

I'm still clutching tightly to the bronze medal I won for coming in second place in a humility contest

umblehay! Good to see you back. Raouls not here anymore, in case you missed the memo.

OHCA · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2010, 07:31:38 PM »

"Why the old pictures of the preVatican II Trindentine mass?"

"Are the pictures old (before Vatican II) or are the pictures of current Masses in the Tridentine form."

Suggested follow up reply:

"The former assumes their vintage and asks why; the latter inquires as to their vintage. Nice try. So tell me, are you a left-wing, feminist who despises the traditional Church of 1,960 years, who may have a Masters degree, but still cannot coherently form a simple question to find out what she really wants to know?"

Emerentiana · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2010, 08:30:52 PM »

Quote from: umblehay anmay

Quote from: Belloc
Quote from: Matthew
Note the current of pride/Feminism in her letter --

"My Masters degree in Theology"
"of course I, a woman, had to disappear"
"I suspect I know more than you do about it"
(plus all the talk about her wide experience)

little humilitythere in her!
what happened to Christ like lowliness..??? Sounds more puffed up, much like Paul soon after converting.....

I'm still clutching tightly to the bronze medal I won for coming in second place in a humility contest

:roll-laugh1: :roll-laugh1: umble!