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Author Topic: Third Wild Western Mass in Vienna - with blessings of Schoenborn  (Read 2766 times)

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Offline Neil Obstat

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  • Cardinal in Vienna promotes desecration of the Eucharist, Austrian Style!

    Sausages cooking with the smoke wafting over the congregation, while
    the priest performs his New Order in the vernacular. People sitting at
    picnic tables, with food and drink being consumed, and cigarettes smoked
    as the liturgy continues, then the crowd files up to receive communion
    in-the-hand.

    If you can understand spoken German, you might be fascinated with this spectacle:

    Blog page containing video of Western Style Festival Liturgy in German


    Some blogsite comments in English (mostly):



    comments:

    Ray from MN said...

        I don't know how Cdl Schoenborn gets away with what goes on in Vienna. He seems to be a loose cannon and yet has a relationship with Pope Benedict that seems to give him some kind of immunity.

        I believe he by birth is descended from Austrian noble family and he could claim the title of "Count/Graf" if he so chose.

        The Germans and the Austrians still honor their former nobility. The Wittelsbachs, Bavaria's former royal family, are still immensely wealthy and get much respect. The Habsburgs also in Austria.

        Bella gerant alii, tu felix Austria nube!
        12:18 PM
    Rich said...

        If I didn't see it, I wouldn't believe it. What a farce!

        Surely, someone in the Vatican is going to step in here. I think there's a duty of the highest order to stop this.
        6:45 PM
    Keith said...

        If the clergy don't believe (in the Real Presence), why would the "faithful"?
        10:16 PM
    John Hetman said...

        This is utterly sacreligeous beyond belief. It's one of the most vile desecrations of the Holy Eucharist possible. If Cardinal Schoenberg allowed this, he has either lost his mind or his soul.
        6:09 AM
    Pam said...

        Pathetic. :(
        3:08 AM
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Third Wild Western Mass in Vienna - with blessings of Schoenborn
    « Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 12:24:31 AM »
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  • I had thought this was a recent event, but now I see it was reported two years ago.
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    Offline Ethelred

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    Third Wild Western Mass in Vienna - with blessings of Schoenborn
    « Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 02:46:07 AM »
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  • Well, we're seeing the so called Hermeneutic of Continuity in action, isn't it?

    However, we don't need to take these New-Cardinals and New-Bishops too serious. We have nothing to do with them and their New-Church, as Archbishop Lefebvre said many times. He wrote to Dom Thomas Aquinas, Brazil, in August 1988:
    Quote from: Archbishop
    But we will have no further relations with le Barroux, and we are advising our faithful to give no more support to an operation which is henceforth in the hands of our enemies, the enemies of Our Lord Jesus Christ and of his Universal Kingship. The Benedictine Sisters (attached to le Barroux) are in great distress. They came to see me. I gave to them the advice that I give to you: remain free, and reject any tie with this modernist Rome.


    Well, indeed the New-Church's many Schönborns occupy our wonderful old church buildings and the episcopal thrones, like in the time of St. Athanasius, but God will soon purge his Church and his world. Then all these anti-Christs will get their just deserts.
    Of course we'll get what is coming to us, too, because only our loss of Faith enabled this crisis of the Church. Already St. Pius X., a pope we would not have deserved normally (see Rampolla), complaint that the catholics had lost the Faith.


    By the way, Schönborn is a true former scholar of the Benedict XVI, the one Bp. Fellay valuates so highly.

    By their fruits you will know them.

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Third Wild Western Mass in Vienna - with blessings of Schoenborn
    « Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 02:15:08 PM »
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  • These over the top novus ordo circuses are a real gift but they are just window dressing.  Sacrilege and blasphemy and heresy is part of parcel of even what some may call a "reverent" novus ordo mass.  At it's best, the novus ordo is a man-centered worship service.  

    The liturgical abusers are never called to explain themselves nor do they ever face censure.  


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Third Wild Western Mass in Vienna - with blessings of Schoenborn
    « Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 02:41:06 PM »
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  • I would consider it sinful to attend an over the top liturgical abuse.  


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Third Wild Western Mass in Vienna - with blessings of Schoenborn
    « Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 05:22:40 PM »
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  • Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    These over the top novus ordo circuses are a real gift but they are just window dressing.  Sacrilege and blasphemy and heresy [are] part [and] parcel of even what some may call a "reverent" novus ordo mass.  

    At it's best, the novus ordo is a man-centered worship service.  

    The liturgical abusers are never called to explain themselves nor do they ever face censure.  


    I totally agree. It's very hard for me to understand how people I know and tell
    them about this just don't get it. They revert to accepting what their Novus Ordo
    priest tells them, in opposition to what I'm telling them. They basically refuse
    to think on their own two feet, and defer to the judgment of someone else.
    This is why the Novus Ordo ever got off the ground in the first place, because
    Catholics do not think on their own initiative. And it has never been Catholic to
    submit your intellect to unreasonable judgment.

    Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    I would consider it sinful to attend an over the top liturgical abuse.  


    This is what happened to me 15 years ago. I realized that to go to "mass" was
    a near occasion of sin for me, and I was morally bound to stay away from
    Church. That should never be the case. Therefore, I had to seek a Canonized
    Traditional Latin Mass. I tried Byzantine and Armenian and Syrian and Melkite
    Catholic Churches but they are not my rite, and I did not fit in.

    I actually met JPII in person on 3 occasions. But I had nothing to say to him!!

    Going to a Papal Mass should be an occasion of grace, but I was scandalized.
    How about them apples??
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    Offline Malleus 01

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    Third Wild Western Mass in Vienna - with blessings of Schoenborn
    « Reply #6 on: June 19, 2012, 01:35:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    These over the top novus ordo circuses are a real gift but they are just window dressing.  Sacrilege and blasphemy and heresy [are] part [and] parcel of even what some may call a "reverent" novus ordo mass.  

    At it's best, the novus ordo is a man-centered worship service.  

    The liturgical abusers are never called to explain themselves nor do they ever face censure.  


    I totally agree. It's very hard for me to understand how people I know and tell
    them about this just don't get it. They revert to accepting what their Novus Ordo
    priest tells them, in opposition to what I'm telling them. They basically refuse
    to think on their own two feet, and defer to the judgment of someone else.
    This is why the Novus Ordo ever got off the ground in the first place, because
    Catholics do not think on their own initiative. And it has never been Catholic to
    submit your intellect to unreasonable judgment.

    Quote from: Capt McQuigg
    I would consider it sinful to attend an over the top liturgical abuse.  


    This is what happened to me 15 years ago. I realized that to go to "mass" was
    a near occasion of sin for me, and I was morally bound to stay away from
    Church. That should never be the case. Therefore, I had to seek a Canonized
    Traditional Latin Mass. I tried Byzantine and Armenian and Syrian and Melkite
    Catholic Churches but they are not my rite, and I did not fit in.

    I actually met JPII in person on 3 occasions. But I had nothing to say to him!!

    Going to a Papal Mass should be an occasion of grace, but I was scandalized.
    How about them apples??


    I believe that many Novus Ordos go along with the changes because the changes fit their lifestyle. We live in the United States where the tenets of free masonry are interwoven with our society, so Novus Ordos find it relatively easy to assimilate their Religious view point with the cultural norms they grew up with.

    Convincing them of True Catholicism is fighting a losing battle.  In my view - the battle must be waged on a spiritual level.  Right reason has no place unles the Catholic values are ingrained.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Third Wild Western Mass in Vienna - with blessings of Schoenborn
    « Reply #7 on: June 19, 2012, 03:25:27 PM »
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  • In southern new jersey, they will hold protestant like tent revival with mass, guitars etc.

    With vatican Ii it is all about socializing.  They put more effort in school and church closings, carnivals, etc then they do about God, blessd Mother and the true catholic faith.  The clergy are not teaching the Catholic faith because many vatican II clergy don't even know their faith.  

    For me there is a time and place for everything.  
    May God bless you and keep you


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    « Reply #8 on: June 19, 2012, 03:32:03 PM »
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  • Also, there are many Catholics in novus ordo who are somewhat traditional but are scared or have been brainwashed not to say or do anything.

    When I was with novus ordo, we protested the tent revival, church closings and liturgical dancing.. and we wrote many letters pointing out the errors and sins of local diocese and Rome ignored us and some of us received nasty letters from US Nuncio office. (He died recently...may he RIP).  Does the Pope know anything about what is going on???  Or does the US conferecne of Catholic bishops the real authority instead of Rome?    

    There are some conservatives within novus ordo... and yet many stay secluded in their Mater Ecclesia parishes and fail to do anything to correct the sins, errors and apostacy of the surrounding parishes which is a sin in itself.  It is like being hypocritical.  

    The traditional Mass is being offerred at one parish while down the street they are beating in drums and doing pagan rituals and dances during Mass.  That is so wrong...
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Third Wild Western Mass in Vienna - with blessings of Schoenborn
    « Reply #9 on: June 20, 2012, 01:11:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey
    Also, there are many Catholics in novus ordo who are somewhat traditional but are scared or have been brainwashed not to say or do anything.


    I know of several "Catholics" who go from place to place, Novus Ordo, then SSPX,
    then Trad independent, then sedevacantist, and even sometimes Protestant or
    non-Christian. They've even come to the point where they don't mention it to
    their priest, or if they do, they only tell a priest who they have found is not likely
    going to admonish them, and there are plenty of those around! This is due to
    the push, even from the Vatican, to advance the One World Religion.

    Quote
    When I was with novus ordo, we protested the tent revival, church closings and liturgical dancing.. and we wrote many letters pointing out the errors and sins of local diocese and Rome ignored us and some of us received nasty letters from US Nuncio office. (He died recently...may he RIP).


    If you have any, you really ought to publish the letters. Ask Matthew if you can
    post them here! The weasels think they can hide behind "private correspondence"
    when the content affects the faith of the entire Church! Forget that noise!

     
    Quote
    Does the Pope know anything about what is going on???  Or does the US conference of Catholic bishops [act as] the real authority instead of Rome?
       

    You can have no doubts that the Pope knows all this and a whole lot more!

    He simply sits on the stack and does as little as possible, because his real
    objective is to wait it out and see what the chaos will produce on its own.

    This is why I think it's a good idea to publish that kind of private correspondence,
    in these times when people need to know. PLUS, once you publish it, they can't
    come back years later and claim it never existed, or that it was different,
    because when you publish it, it's up to them to speak out and deny what you
    have published. The fact that they don't deny it when it's recent, is evidence that
    they couldn't deny it because it was true, and that lends credibility to the
    published text.

    Think of it as an experimental enterprise where you loosen up the restrictions
    and let the "free market" do as it will. It's really laissez-faire ecclesiology.
    Maybe that's what Benedict XVI thinks our prayers mean when we ask God
    for the "freedom and exultation of Holy Mother Church?"

    Quote
    There are some conservatives within novus ordo... and yet many stay secluded in their Mater Ecclesia parishes and fail to do anything to correct the sins, errors and apostasy of the surrounding parishes which is a sin in itself.  It is like being hypocritical.  


    It isn't really their job. That's the job of the local bishop. But the local bishops are
    generally following the Modernist trend of which B16 is the prime example, with
    his laissez-faire ecclesiology.

    Quote
    The traditional Mass is being offered at one parish while down the street they are beating in drums and doing pagan rituals and dances during Mass.  That is so wrong...


    And if you complain to the bishop who ought to be eager to do something about it,
    you'll get a deaf ear, a waiting list, or a nasty letter from the nuncio's office.

    This has got to be closely related to the Third Secret of Fatima, which would be
    a good explanation why they haven't released it, because
    it would pop their bubble, like this:    :pop:
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Third Wild Western Mass in Vienna - with blessings of Schoenborn
    « Reply #10 on: June 20, 2012, 02:04:13 PM »
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  • Quote from: Malleus 01

    I believe that many Novus Ordos go along with the changes because the changes fit their lifestyle. We live in the United States where the tenets of [Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ] are interwoven with our society, so Novus Ordos find it relatively easy to assimilate their Religious viewpoint with the cultural norms they grew up with.


    This is a very insightful message, Malleus!

    "You done good." (You did well.)
     
    (There's an example of how, to some recipients, hearing a compliment in a
    vernacular and ungrammatical idiom inspires more of an emotional response
    from them, than would a proper, grammatically correct phrase with equivalent
    meaning. This principle is at the basis of much of the liturgical reform, since
    they believe that the liturgy in the vernacular has more power to inspire the
    listeners than does the ancient and unchanging languages, such as Latin.)

    Back to your message.

    The tenets of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ are indeed interwoven into our society, and this has
    come to us largely through Protestant sects, because Freemasons are mostly
    Protestants. There are some Jєωs, but mostly at the higher levels. Jєωs move
    through the 33 levels (or however many degrees there are to move through)
    very quickly. "It's not what you know, but who you know" (and the beliefs that
    you hold in common with them). Freemason leaders are conspicuously guarded
    against having this truth known, and in fact, if you understand it and are
    willing to admit as much to them, on that basis alone, you will likely be unable
    to achieve acceptance as a new member of the Freemasons.

    There are no shortage of Papal proscriptions against Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, but in the
    wake of the infamous Opening Speech of John XXIII in 1962, when he said
    there would be no more condemnations of error, local pastors have been
    going soft on Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ, and have been allowing Freemasons to be a lot
    more active in parish life. I've seen this even in Armenian Orthodox parishes.
    The stories are most easily obtained.

    I have had Novus Ordo pastors who have assured me, as of about 20 years
    ago, that it's okay now for a Catholic to become a Freemason. This seemed to
    me at odds with what the Church really teaches, and since then, I have found
    that by asking traditional priests, that the teaching has never changed.
    Therefore, by applying simple logic to this situation, we find out that any pastor
    who tells you this is committing heresy, at least material, because he is aware
    that the Church has taught that Catholics cannot become Freemasons, and that
    anything regarding faith or morals once condemned by a pope is condemned
    forever, without end, and this pastor is telling you that he knows better that
    that, and he has something "new" for you to believe. That is heresy.

    There is a reason that some pastors are saying there is no membership
    prohibition (which is a lie) and it is based on the false notion of religious
    freedom, and false ecuмenism. It is the same erroneous principle behind
    the Assisi gatherings. All these things are at least material heresy.

    Like with so many other things, if you try to tell a Catholic something that will
    help him in his faith, he may find what you have to say too challenging, and
    then he may go to his pastor and ask about what you told him. If his pastor
    tells him something different, something that he even equally could have
    heard from a local Lutheran minister or a Unitarian, for example, he will likely
    defer to the counsel of the pastor and reject what you said A) because it fits
    his lifestyle better, B) because it's more "comfortable," and C) because he has
    something else to gain by taking sides with his pastor against a "fringe group
    Trad" or whatever language the pastor comes up with to marginalize the
    Catholic faith.

    This has got to be in the Third Secret!

    Quote
    Convincing them of True Catholicism is fighting a losing battle.  In my view - the battle must be waged on a spiritual level.  Right reason has no place unless the Catholic values are ingrained.


    How true, how true.

    The popular culture we live in abhors everything Catholic, and you are pretty
    much going to war against everything outside the door when you try to
    evangelize. Any such effort that is not firmly founded on the spiritual level is
    doomed to fail. Catholic values, doctrine and catechism must be at the basis of
    any successful foray into right reason, and they are best instilled at the level
    of childhood, when they can be "ingrained."
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