Author Topic: There is a big sin against ecuмenism: proselytism (Read 5043 times)

Degrelle · « **on:** October 01, 2016, 08:02:10 PM »

Via http://novusordowatch.org/2016/10/francis-converting-orthodox-sin-against-ecuмenism/

Quote

Later in a visit with Georgian Catholics at a Tbilisi parish on Saturday afternoon, Francis told them they must not seek to convert members of the Georgian Orthodox community.

“There is a big sin against ecuмenism: proselytism,” said the pontiff. “You must never proselytize the Orthodox. They are our brothers and sisters, disciples of Jesus Christ.”

“Walk together, pray for each other, and do works of charity together when you can,” the pope encouraged. “This is ecuмenism. Do not condemn a brother or sister.”

(Joshua J. McElwee, “Francis tells Georgia’s Catholic minority of ‘wonders’ God works in smallness”, National Catholic Reporter, Oct. 1, 2016)

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #1 on:** October 01, 2016, 08:27:17 PM »

He's in a country where virtually all ethnic Georgians are members of the Orthodox state church. I can't imagine proselytizing doing anything.

Nishant · « **Reply #2 on:** October 02, 2016, 03:42:50 AM »

Evangelizing the Orthodox who have been in schism for almost a 1000 years and helping them return by God's grace to the Roman Catholic Church is the duty of all Catholic Christians, especially the Supreme Pontiff, Pope Francis' personal opinions to the contrary notwithstanding. If a particular country is almost entirely in the grip of a schismatic Church, the duty is incuмbent particularly on the leaders of that country and the bishops of that place to help the people restore communion with Rome. Those who neglect to do this, and professing Catholics who fail to warn them of the schism of Photius and its many errors, will face a terrible judgment before God.

Last Tradhican · « **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2016, 09:26:55 AM »

Quote

“There is a big sin against ecuмenism: proselytism,” said the pontiff. “You must never proselytize the Orthodox. They are our brothers and sisters, disciples of Jesus Christ.”

By their deeds you shall know them.

Sins against Ecuмenism?

O ye atheists who do not believe in God, what fools you are! But if you do believe there is a God, you must also believe there is a true religion. And if not the Roman Catholic, which is it? Perhaps that of the pagans who admit many gods, thus they deny them all. Perhaps that of Mohammed, a religion invented by an impostor and framed for beasts rather than humans. Perhaps that of the Jєωs who had the true faith at one time but, because they rejected their redeemer, lost their faith, their country, their everything. Perhaps that of the heretics who, separating themselves from our Church, have confused all revealed dogmas in such a way that the belief of one heretic is contrary to that of his neighbor. O holy faith! Enlighten all those poor blind creatures who run to eternal perdition! (St. Alphonsus Liguori)

Ladislaus · « **Reply #4 on:** October 02, 2016, 10:35:51 AM »

Quote from: Nishant

Pope Francis' personal opinions to the contrary notwithstanding.

This opinion puts on display a heretical denial of EENS; there's no getting around the fact that this man clearly does not believe the dogmatic definitions which emphatically declare that schismatics are outside the Church and cannot be saved. Bergoglio clearly believes that they are within the Church already ... as per the Vatican II ecclesiology.

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #5 on:** October 02, 2016, 11:58:04 AM »

Georgia Orthodox are not welcoming Francis and are correct that he is an
Arch-Heretic.

TKGS · « **Reply #6 on:** October 02, 2016, 02:35:06 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

Quote from: Nishant
Pope Francis' personal opinions to the contrary notwithstanding.

This opinion puts on display a heretical denial of EENS; there's no getting around the fact that this man clearly does not believe the dogmatic definitions which emphatically declare that schismatics are outside the Church and cannot be saved. Bergoglio clearly believes that they are within the Church already ... as per the Vatican II ecclesiology.

Actually, I don't believe Bergoglio denies EENS, per se; I think he denies salvation after this life on earth altogether. I don't think he even believes God exists. For him, the sole purpose of the Church is for the betterment of mankind...er, I mean, humankind here on earth. He is being absolutely consistent.

nctradcath · « **Reply #7 on:** October 02, 2016, 02:53:27 PM »

The Georgians are correct that Jorge is a heretic. A broken clock can be correct twice a day.

josefamenendez · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2016, 08:10:33 PM »

Well, Francis will never consecrate Russia, that's for sure

Matto · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2016, 08:15:08 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

I don't think he even believes God exists. For him, the sole purpose of the Church is for the betterment of mankind...er, I mean, humankind here on earth. He is being absolutely consistent.

Wow, you are very kind in your asessment of Francis. I don't know what Francis really believes but I have guesses, and they are not nearly as kind as your opinion.

Cantarella · « **Reply #10 on:** October 02, 2016, 09:14:16 PM »

Quote from: JezusDeKoning

He's in a country where virtually all ethnic Georgians are members of the Orthodox state church. I can't imagine proselytizing doing anything.

The Catholic spirit is that we should always keep hope of conversion even for the most godless of nations. And also, we must keep an apostolic, evangelizing zeal world-wide. That is the command expressed in the last words of Our Lord to us on earth: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost". This is an extremely important responsibility, in particular, for the Roman Pontiff, the Vicar of Christ.

We must always keep hope and pray for the schismatics and work for their conversion (who the Church clearly teach, are damned). See for example, St. Francis Xavier considered to bethel greatest apostle of the Church after St Paul. He baptized three million people in far lands, Japan, India. He destroyed 40000 idols in the pagan East and built over a hundred churches in unfriendly territories.

Cantarella · « **Reply #11 on:** October 02, 2016, 09:22:59 PM »

Quote from: Francis

“There is a big sin against ecuмenism: proselytism,” “You must never proselytize the Orthodox. They are our brothers and sisters, disciples of Jesus Christ.”

“Walk together, pray for each other, and do works of charity together when you can,” the pope encouraged. “This is ecuмenism. Do not condemn a brother or sister.”

Quote from: Pope St. Leo IX, to the Orthodox Schismatics

We are filled with the witness of Him who came down from heaven and is above all, and who said: Thou are Peter and upon this rock I will build My Church.’ ... ‘If you live not in the body which is Christ, you are none of His. Whose, then, are you? You have been cut off and will wither, and like the branch pruned from the vine, you will burn in the fire — an end which may God’s goodness keep far from you.

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 02, 2016, 10:05:05 PM »

No wonder the orthodox in Georgia says that Francis is a Arch-Heretic,
Assisi 2016 another disgusting replay.
This cannot be the Catholic Church:

http://www.traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A698-Assisi.htm

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2016, 02:23:57 AM »

This is more or less a resurrection of the Balamand Declaration from some twenty years ago, which read, in part:

"Because of the way in which Catholics and Orthodox once again consider each other in their relationship to the mystery of the Church and discover each other once again as Sister Churches, this form of "missionary apostolate" described above [as proselytism], and which has been called "uniatism", can no longer be accepted either as a method to be followed nor as a model of the unity our Churches are seeking" (Balamand Declaration, Ecclesiological Principles, §12).

and it continues:

"In fact, especially since the panorthodox Conferences and the Second Vatican Council, the re- discovery and the giving again of proper value to the Church as communion, both on the part of Orthodox and of Catholics, has radically altered perspectives and thus attitudes. On each side it is recognized that what Christ has entrusted to his Church - profession of apostolic faith, participation in the same sacraments, above all the one priesthood celebrating the one sacrifice of Christ, the apostolic succession of bishops - cannot be considered the exclusive property of one of our Churches" (Balamand Declaration, Ecclesiological Principles, § 13).

Balamand Declaration Full Text

The effects to EENS are just collateral. The Novus Ordo's very concept of the Church's nature is corrupted.

One might think the Novus Ordo would at least be savvy enough to preach the occasional model of exclusivity, to keep people in the pews, and money to cover up for the perverts? Evidently not.

MMagdala · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2016, 02:25:55 AM »

Quote from: TKGS

I don't think he even believes God exists. For him, the sole purpose of the Church is for the betterment of mankind...er, I mean, humankind here on earth. He is being absolutely consistent.

I agree.