Author Topic: The Vicar of Christ can never in actual fact become a pertinacious heretic.  (Read 641 times)

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Offline XavierSem

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The contrary opinion is a hypothesis only and it was the teaching of the conservative, orthodox Fathers at Vatican I who defined ex cathedra Papal Infallibility that in actual fact the Vicar of Christ can never - non-hypothetically - become actually a formal and pertinacious heretic. It was the Gallicans and other heretics who believed such had actually happened many times and the Saints absolutely fought against this and denied that it had allegedly happened to Pope Honorius and others. The Saints grant it as a possible hypothesis only but they denied that it would ever actually happen, because Jesus had promised the Faith of St. Peter would not fail.

Cardinal Billot: ""I said under the supposition of the hypothesis. But the fact that the hypothesis itself is a mere hypothesis, never reducible to an act, appears far more probable, according to Luke 22:32: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith not fail; and thou being once converted, confirm thy brethren. For the voice of all Tradition says we must understand this verse to refer to Peter and his successors in perpetuity, and it will be professedly declared below, where the infallible teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff. But for the time being, it is assumed as absolutely certain. Now, however, even if the words of the Gospel principally regard the public person of the individual teaching ex cathedra, they must be said, as far as preservation from heresy is concerned, to extend also, by a kind of necessity, to the private person of the pontiff ... For Innocent had said earlier: “If I were not made firm in the faith, how could I strengthen others in the faith? That is what is recognized as pertaining especially to my office, as the Lord witnesses: I have prayed for thee, Peter, that thy faith not fail; and thou being once converted, confirm thy brethren. He prayed and He brought it to pass, since He was heard in all things out of reverence for Him. And therefore the faith of the apostolic see has never failed in any disturbance, but has always remained whole and unimpaired in order that the privilege of Peter should persist unshaken.” Consequently, that statement is rather in opposition to adversaries, unless they should say that by it Innocent actually means he can sometimes lack that which the Lord procured for Peter as necessary for the office to which he appointed him ... But whatever you finally think about the possibility or impossibility of the aforementioned hypothesis, at least one point must be maintained as completely unshaken and firmly placed beyond all doubt: the adherence alone of the universal Church will always be of itself an infallible sign of the legitimacy of the person of the Pontiff, and, what is more, even of the existence of all the conditions requisite for legitimacy itself. One need not fetch from afar proof of this claim. The reason is that it is taken immediately from the infallible promise of Christ and from providence." (Billot, De Ecclesia Thesis, Q. 14. T. 29, On the Legitimacy of the Roman Pontiff?

How can anyone reconcile the teaching of our Holy Father Pope St. Pius X in his Catechism with 61 year sedevacantism that claims the last 6 Popes have been heretics? It is not possible. https://www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/PIUSXCAT.HTM See the Ninth Article of the Creed, the Holy Catholic Church, The Church Teaching and the Church Taught, Q.31 to Q. 72 especially. It's not possible for Christ's Vicar to ever fall into heresy, since Our Lord Jesus Christ prayed and promised that the Faith of Peter would never fail. Peter can at times be weak as St. Peter was on the night of the Lord's Passion; indeed it is necessary for Peter to be weak for this Passion of the Church to be possible, but he can never be a formal and pertinacious heretic. He may err as Pope John XXII did but in good faith, without pertinacity and therefore without losing his office. The resolution came from one of the resisting Cardinals. Perhaps it will come in a similar way today?

Quote
The Church Teaching and the Church Taught[/i][/font][/size][/color]
38 Q. Is there any distinction between the members of the Church?
A. There is a very notable distinction between the members of the Church; for there are some who rule and some who obey; some who teach and some who are taught.

39 Q. What do you call that part of the Church which teaches?
A. That part of the Church which teaches is called the Teaching Church ...


The Pope and the Bishops
50 Q. Who is the Pope?
A. The Pope, who is also called the Sovereign Pontiff, or the Roman Pontiff, is the Successor of St. Peter in the See of Rome, the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth, and the visible Head of the Church ...


62 Q. How should every Catholic act towards the Pope?
A. Every Catholic must acknowledge the Pope as Father, Pastor, and Universal Teacher, and be united with him in mind and heart.

63 Q. After the Pope, who are they who by Divine appointment are to be most venerated in the Church?
A. After the Pope, those who by Divine appointment are to be most venerated in the Church are the Bishops.


64 Q. Who are the Bishops?
A. The Bishops are the pastors of the faithful; placed by the Holy Ghost to rule the Church of God in the Sees entrusted to them, in dependence on the Roman Pontiff

65 Q. What is a Bishop in his own diocese?
A. A Bishop in his own diocese is the lawful Pastor, the Father, the Teacher, the Superior of all the faithful, ecclesiastic and lay belonging to his diocese.

66 Q. Why is the Bishop called the lawful Pastor?
A. The Bishop is called the lawful Pastor because the jurisdiction, or the power which he has to govern the faithful of his diocese, is conferred upon him according to the laws and regulations of the Church.

67 Q. To whom do the Pope and the Bishops succeed?
A. The Pope is the successor of St. Peter. the Prince of the Apostles; and the Bishops are the Successors of the Apostles, in all that regards the ordinary government of the Church.

68 Q. Must the faithful be in union with their Bishop?
A. Yes, all the faithful, ecclesiastic and lay, should be united heart and soul with their Bishop, who is in favour and communion with the Apostolic See.

69 Q. How should the faithful act towards their own Bishop?
A. Each one of the faithful, both ecclesiastic and lay, should revere, love and honour his own Bishop and render him obedience in all that regards the care of souls and the spiritual government of the diocese.

70 Q. By whom is the Bishop assisted in the care of souls?
A. The Bishop is assisted in the care of souls by priests, and especially by Parish Priests.

71 Q. Who is the Parish Priest?
A. The Parish Priest is a priest deputed to preside over and direct with due dependence on his Bishop a portion of the diocese called a parish.

72 Q. What are the duties of the faithful towards their Parish Priest?
A. The faithful should be united with their Parish Priest, listen to him with docility, and show him respect and submission in all that regards the care of the parish.

"Take my advice and every day in Mass ask God to make you a great Saint"-St. Leonard. Go for Holy Mass every day to receive the Holy Body and Precious Blood of God. Do never skip Holy Mass for even one single day, if you want to become a Saint, as the Saints tell us, we should all aspire to become.

Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathem.
    Galatians 1:8
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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  • “[Satan] will set up a counter church which will be the ape of the [Catholic] Church. . . . It will have all the notes and characteristics of the Church, but in reverse and emptied of its divine content.”  Archbishop Fulton Sheen. 
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea.  St Mathew. 
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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  • Douay-Rheims Bible
    Who answering, said to them: Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? - Jesus.  ( st Mathew )
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Stubborn

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  • The contrary opinion is a hypothesis only and it was the teaching of the conservative, orthodox Fathers at Vatican I who defined ex cathedra Papal Infallibility that in actual fact the Vicar of Christ can never - non-hypothetically - become actually a formal and pertinacious heretic.
    I disagree this is taught infallibly, hypothetically or otherwise at V1.

    What the First Vatican Council did, is it infallibly condemned those who say that Christ did not institute that "blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy". But V1 never defined nor taught that the pope cannot be a heretic.

    But if it did, then simple reality dictates that either V1 was wrong, or the pope is not a heretic, regardless of what Cardinal Billot opined.

     

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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  • Leviticus 20:13
    Verse Concepts

    'If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)

    Offline XavierSem

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  • Quote from: Stubborn
    [Vatican I]infallibly condemned those who say that Christ did not institute that "blessed Peter should have perpetual successors in the primacy over the whole church; or that the Roman pontiff is not the successor of blessed Peter in this primacy"


    Correct, Stubborn, it also taught and defined this: "2. Wherefore we teach and declare that, by divine ordinance, the Roman Church possesses a pre-eminence of ordinary power over every other Church, and that this jurisdictional power of the Roman Pontiff is both episcopal and immediate. Both clergy and faithful, of whatever rite and dignity, both singly and collectively, are bound to submit to this power by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, and this not only in matters concerning faith and morals, but also in those which regard the discipline and government of the Church throughout the world ... 9. So, then, if anyone says that the Roman Pontiff has merely an office of supervision and guidance, and not the full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, and this not only in matters of faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church dispersed throughout the whole world; or that he has only the principal part, but not the absolute fullness, of this supreme power; or that this power of his is not ordinary and immediate both over all and each of the Churches and over all and each of the pastors and faithful: let him be anathema." (Chapter 3, On the Power and Character of the Primacy of the Roman Pontiff, Session 4, 18 July 1870, Dogmatic Constitution on the Catholic Faith https://www.ewtn.com/library/councils/v1.htm )

    Quote
    But if it did, then simple reality dictates that either V1 was wrong, or the pope is not a heretic
    I agree these are the only two alternatives, but the first is impossible because Vatican I was an Ecumenical Council and is Dogma.

    Therefore, the second must be true. Some passages in Vatican I that exegete and interpret the Lord's Promise of never-failing Faith:

    Chapter 4.
    On the infallible teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff

    1. That apostolic primacy which the Roman Pontiff possesses as successor of Peter, the prince of the apostles, includes also the supreme power of teaching. This Holy See has always maintained this, the constant custom of the Church demonstrates it, and the ecumenical councils, particularly those in which East and West met in the union of faith and charity, have declared it.
    2. So the fathers of the fourth Council of Constantinople, following the footsteps of their predecessors, published this solemn profession of faith: The first condition of salvation is to maintain the rule of the true faith. And since that saying of our lord Jesus Christ, You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church [55], cannot fail of its effect, the words spoken are confirmed by their consequences. For in the Apostolic See the Catholic religion has always been preserved unblemished, and sacred doctrine been held in honor. Since it is our earnest desire to be in no way separated from this faith and doctrine, we hope that we may deserve to remain in that one communion which the Apostolic See preaches, for in it is the whole and true strength of the Christian religion [56] ...4. It was for this reason that the bishops of the whole world, sometimes individually, sometimes gathered in synods, according to the long established custom of the Churches and the pattern of ancient usage referred to this Apostolic See those dangers especially which arose in matters concerning the faith. This was to ensure that any damage suffered by the faith should be repaired in that place above all where the faith can know no failing [59] ...Indeed, their apostolic teaching was embraced by all the venerable fathers and reverenced and followed by all the holy orthodox doctors, for they knew very well that this See of St. Peter always remains unblemished by any error, in accordance with the divine promise of our Lord and Savior to the prince of his disciples: I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail; and when you have turned again, strengthen your brethren [60].
    7. This gift of truth and never-failing faith was therefore divinely conferred on Peter and his successors in this See so that they might discharge their exalted office for the salvation of all, and so that the whole flock of Christ might be kept away by them from the poisonous food of error and be nourished with the sustenance of heavenly doctrine. Thus the tendency to schism is removed and the whole Church is preserved in unity, and, resting on its foundation, can stand firm against the gates of hell."

    Do we think Vatican I's explanation of the Lord's Promise to St. Peter can be mistaken? I cannot see how that could be the case.

    Viva Cristo Rey, I agree with Abp. Sheen. Sr. Catherine Emmerich also prophesied a false counter-church in Rome side by side and opposing the true Church. She also spoke of the secret sect trying to subvert the Church of St. Peter. And she spoke of Two Popes.
    "Take my advice and every day in Mass ask God to make you a great Saint"-St. Leonard. Go for Holy Mass every day to receive the Holy Body and Precious Blood of God. Do never skip Holy Mass for even one single day, if you want to become a Saint, as the Saints tell us, we should all aspire to become.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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  • Quote
    The contrary opinion is a hypothesis only and it was the teaching of the conservative, orthodox Fathers at Vatican I who defined ex cathedra Papal Infallibility that in actual fact the Vicar of Christ can never - non-hypothetically - become actually a formal and pertinacious heretic.
    They did no such thing.  Cardinal Burke and the 4 Cardinals who sent the dubia letter to +Francis, proves it's possible for the pope to fall into heresy.  Otherwise, they wouldn't have sent the letter.

    Offline Stubborn

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    But if it did, then simple reality dictates that either V1 was wrong, or the pope is not a heretic

    I agree these are the only two alternatives, but the first is impossible because Vatican I was an Ecumenical Council and is Dogma.

    Therefore, the second must be true: Some passages in Vatican I that exegete and interpret the Lord's Promise of never-failing Faith.

     [...]

    Do we think Vatican I's explanation of the Lord's Promise to St. Peter can be mistaken? I cannot see how that could be the case.
    The second is most assuredly as wrong as the first point Xavier. All one needs to do is know of anything that any of the conciliar popes have said or written to know they speak heresy.

    What is now needed, is to examine both of the indisputable facts and form an indisputable conclusion, based on those facts:

    1) V1 is right.
    2) The pope preaches heresy.

    This only means your understanding of what V1 taught, is wrong.
    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline confederate catholic

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  • or VI is wrong or badly explained. at least one patriarch signed the document putting his reservations in writing and it wasn't the majority opinion of the fathers present, immediately after the council cardinals wrote explanation pieces limiting what was said. remember that the opinion of papal impeccability was held by some of the fathers at the same council. Perhaps what makes a council ecumenical can come up at a future council, after all VI did not happen in a free manner since the Pope told the majority who were not satisfied with the definition that was proposed and were working on another definition that they were done and to accept what was proposed by the ultramontanes.

    if this is too controversial Matthew please remove. it is just that at Trent the fathers themselves didn't think all those before were. the Spanish and French fathers refused to agree to attend the council unless all those before except the first eight were declared non ecumenical
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا


    Offline Stubborn

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  • or VI is wrong or badly explained.
    I don't believe that could be an option.

    V1 never taught anything about what happens to the pope's status when he falls into heresy. Nor did V1 ever teach that the pope could not fall into heresy, not even in chapter 4, because that chapter is, as that chapter's title says, is only about the infallible, not fallible teaching authority of the pope, which fallible teaching, is now proven that it can be heretical via the conciliar popes.

    Obviously any heretical teachings from a pope will not and can never be infallible - but that is not to say a pope cannot preach heresy, V1 does not say that.

    Chapter 4.
    On the infallible teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff....

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man." - Fr. Hesse

    Offline confederate catholic

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  • agreed, the thing is I really believe a definition of this kind leads to the type of popalotry we experience today, and this council was the first to be a popularity contest and the first where a Pope told the fathers what to do, instead of either assenting to the vote or denying it. This seems to lead directly to a Pope making a council for his own personal desire of updating the church which couldn't have happened if the fathers had not abdicated their responsibility at VI.
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا

    Offline DecemRationis

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  • The contrary opinion is a hypothesis only and it was the teaching of the conservative, orthodox Fathers at Vatican I who defined ex cathedra Papal Infallibility that in actual fact the Vicar of Christ can never - non-hypothetically - become actually a formal and pertinacious heretic. It was the Gallicans and other heretics who believed such had actually happened many times and the Saints absolutely fought against this and denied that it had allegedly happened to Pope Honorius and others. The Saints grant it as a possible hypothesis only but they denied that it would ever actually happen, because Jesus had promised the Faith of St. Peter would not fail.

    Cardinal Billot: ""I said under the supposition of the hypothesis. But the fact that the hypothesis itself is a mere hypothesis, never reducible to an act, appears far more probable, according to Luke 22:32: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith not fail; and thou being once converted, confirm thy brethren. For the voice of all Tradition says we must understand this verse to refer to Peter and his successors in perpetuity, and it will be professedly declared below, where the infallible teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff. But for the time being, it is assumed as absolutely certain. Now, however, even if the words of the Gospel principally regard the public person of the individual teaching ex cathedra, they must be said, as far as preservation from heresy is concerned, to extend also, by a kind of necessity, to the private person of the pontiff ... For Innocent had said earlier: “If I were not made firm in the faith, how could I strengthen others in the faith? That is what is recognized as pertaining especially to my office, as the Lord witnesses: I have prayed for thee, Peter, that thy faith not fail; and thou being once converted, confirm thy brethren. He prayed and He brought it to pass, since He was heard in all things out of reverence for Him. And therefore the faith of the apostolic see has never failed in any disturbance, but has always remained whole and unimpaired in order that the privilege of Peter should persist unshaken.” Consequently, that statement is rather in opposition to adversaries, unless they should say that by it Innocent actually means he can sometimes lack that which the Lord procured for Peter as necessary for the office to which he appointed him ... But whatever you finally think about the possibility or impossibility of the aforementioned hypothesis, at least one point must be maintained as completely unshaken and firmly placed beyond all doubt: the adherence alone of the universal Church will always be of itself an infallible sign of the legitimacy of the person of the Pontiff, and, what is more, even of the existence of all the conditions requisite for legitimacy itself. One need not fetch from afar proof of this claim. The reason is that it is taken immediately from the infallible promise of Christ and from providence." (Billot, De Ecclesia Thesis, Q. 14. T. 29, On the Legitimacy of the Roman Pontiff?

    How can anyone reconcile the teaching of our Holy Father Pope St. Pius X in his Catechism with 61 year sedevacantism that claims the last 6 Popes have been heretics? It is not possible. https://www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/PIUSXCAT.HTM See the Ninth Article of the Creed, the Holy Catholic Church, The Church Teaching and the Church Taught, Q.31 to Q. 72 especially. It's not possible for Christ's Vicar to ever fall into heresy, since Our Lord Jesus Christ prayed and promised that the Faith of Peter would never fail. Peter can at times be weak as St. Peter was on the night of the Lord's Passion; indeed it is necessary for Peter to be weak for this Passion of the Church to be possible, but he can never be a formal and pertinacious heretic. He may err as Pope John XXII did but in good faith, without pertinacity and therefore without losing his office. The resolution came from one of the resisting Cardinals. Perhaps it will come in a similar way today?




    Quote
    The Church Teaching and the Church Taught
    Quote

    38 Q. Is there any distinction between the members of the Church?
    A. There is a very notable distinction between the members of the Church; for there are some who rule and some who obey; some who teach and some who are taught.

    39 Q. What do you call that part of the Church which teaches?
    A. That part of the Church which teaches is called the Teaching Church ...


    The Pope and the Bishops
    50 Q. Who is the Pope?
    A. The Pope, who is also called the Sovereign Pontiff, or the Roman Pontiff, is the Successor of St. Peter in the See of Rome, the Vicar of Jesus Christ on earth, and the visible Head of the Church ...


    62 Q. How should every Catholic act towards the Pope?
    A. Every Catholic must acknowledge the Pope as Father, Pastor, and Universal Teacher, and be united with him in mind and heart.

    63 Q. After the Pope, who are they who by Divine appointment are to be most venerated in the Church?
    A. After the Pope, those who by Divine appointment are to be most venerated in the Church are the Bishops.


    64 Q. Who are the Bishops?
    A. The Bishops are the pastors of the faithful; placed by the Holy Ghost to rule the Church of God in the Sees entrusted to them, in dependence on the Roman Pontiff

    65 Q. What is a Bishop in his own diocese?
    A. A Bishop in his own diocese is the lawful Pastor, the Father, the Teacher, the Superior of all the faithful, ecclesiastic and lay belonging to his diocese.

    66 Q. Why is the Bishop called the lawful Pastor?
    A. The Bishop is called the lawful Pastor because the jurisdiction, or the power which he has to govern the faithful of his diocese, is conferred upon him according to the laws and regulations of the Church.

    67 Q. To whom do the Pope and the Bishops succeed?
    A. The Pope is the successor of St. Peter. the Prince of the Apostles; and the Bishops are the Successors of the Apostles, in all that regards the ordinary government of the Church.

    68 Q. Must the faithful be in union with their Bishop?
    A. Yes, all the faithful, ecclesiastic and lay, should be united heart and soul with their Bishop, who is in favour and communion with the Apostolic See.

    69 Q. How should the faithful act towards their own Bishop?
    A. Each one of the faithful, both ecclesiastic and lay, should revere, love and honour his own Bishop and render him obedience in all that regards the care of souls and the spiritual government of the diocese.

    70 Q. By whom is the Bishop assisted in the care of souls?
    A. The Bishop is assisted in the care of souls by priests, and especially by Parish Priests.

    71 Q. Who is the Parish Priest?
    A. The Parish Priest is a priest deputed to preside over and direct with due dependence on his Bishop a portion of the diocese called a parish.

    72 Q. What are the duties of the faithful towards their Parish Priest?
    A. The faithful should be united with their Parish Priest, listen to him with docility, and show him respect and submission in all that regards the care of the parish.

    Xavier,

    Yes, this is true and has been true for the Church for over 2,000 years. It is a general rule that holds, like the laws of physics. But God intervenes to stand the laws of physics on their head on occasion. These are called miracles. There are also exceptions to general spiritual rules or laws, unique situations that present exceptions. These exceptions, forecast by Scripture, decreed by God, are not contradictions to the general spiritual law or rule - they have the divine sanction of the King, and are part of His plan. There is no contradiction when they occur.

    A relevant example. Christ said about those "given" to Him by the Father in John 6:

    Quote


    [37] All that the Father giveth to me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me, I will not cast out.
    Omne quod dat mihi Pater, ad me veniet : et eum qui venit ad me, non ejiciam foras :
    [38] Because I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me.
    quia descendi de caelo, non ut faciam voluntatem meam, sed voluntatem ejus qui misit me.
    [39] Now this is the will of the Father who sent me: that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again in the last day.
    Haec est autem voluntas ejus qui misit me, Patris : ut omne quod dedit mihi, non perdam ex eo, sed resuscitem illud in novissimo die.
    [40] And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day.
    Haec est autem voluntas Patris mei, qui misit me : ut omnis qui videt Filium et credit in eum, habeat vitam aeternam, et ego resuscitabo eum in novissimo die.


    http://www.drbo.org/drl/chapter/50006.htm

    Christ said that He would lose "none" of those given to Him by the Father. The general, governing rule or law; He loses "nothing."
    Now, the exception, which does not contradict the rule, the exception being an anomaly, a departure, planned and decreed by God (a suspension of the rule, a "miracle"):

    Quote
    John 17:12

    While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled.
    Cum essem cum eis, ego servabam eos in nomine tuo. Quos dedisti mihi, custodivi : et nemo ex eis periit, nisi filius perditionis, ut Scriptura impleatur.

    http://www.drbo.org/drl/chapter/50017.htm


    There are exceptions, foretold and revealed in Scripture, which must be fulfilled.

    I have no authority and do not offer my own view, but give for your prayer and reflection this: there is another "son of perdition" forecast in Scripture - 2 Thessalonians 2:3 - another "filius perditionis." Another "exception" to the general rule?

    We are in unchartered waters. If the Church had spoken and taught on the "exception," a "son of perdition" to rise within her and to rule her, it would have created chaos for centuries, and been self-destructive.

    As I said, pray, and seek guidance.

    I think we are where the general rule, true and good, has been suspended. That does not make the rule a lie, as "miracles" do not make the laws of physics false.

    DR
    I believe in the Apostolic Catholic Church. I reject and denounce the malfeasant or “dysfunctional papal or episcopal Newchurch.” - Father Paul Trinchard

    Online Ladislaus

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  • XavierSem, on the other hand, can in fact become a pertinacious schismatic and Modernist.


     

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