Author Topic: The True and the False Infallibility of the Popes (Read 953 times)

DecemRationis · « **Reply #20 on:** **Today** at 06:20:29 AM »

Argument over whether cuм Ex is infallible or not is a waste of time. It doesn't matter. What matters is in cuм Ex we have a consideration of the meaning of the dire passage in Matthew 24 where Our Lord speaks of the abomination of desolation in the Holy Place as a sign that the end is approaching. This is an interpretation offered by a pope of the meaning of a controversial and very significant passage of Scripture, an interpretation in a formal docuмent issued in an authoritative decree by a sovereign pontiff.

In short, we have a pope of the Church indicating that the abomination of desolation forecast to happen before Christ's return may be understood to refer to a usurpation of the papal throne and/or the presence of heresiarchs at the highest level of Church authority, sitting, as Christ said of the Pharisees, "in Moses' seat" of authority. Like the Pharisees, they may indeed even teach things from "the seat" that make "void the commandment of God," Matthew 15:6. Paul IV's observation that these apostate pope(s) 'or heresiarch(s)' "promotion or elevation, even if it shall have been uncontested and by the unanimous assent of all the Cardinals, shall be null, void and worthless" is particularly relevant.

This insight of Paul IV seems prophetic in light of what we are living through, and offers an explanation for the post-Vatican II disaster that fits in with Scriptural prophecy. It is therefore relevant, and, to me, particularly cogent, and eerily prophetic.

A papal insight and explication of Scripture in a papal decree that frankly I see as a gift from God to us benighted souls in the time of the Great Apostasy.

Is it infallible? I don't know, but that's beside the point. And if you think that issue matters you're, as Lad said elsewhere in this thread, missing the forest for the trees.

I would add that arguing whether the Vatican II popes are really popes or should be called popes or whether the Church has lost her indefectibility as a result is likewise missing the forest for the trees. The events of Matthew 24:15 ("the abomination of desolation in the holy place") and those of which Paul IV speaks are sui generis and not the normal state of affairs, so to argue about what effect they have on doctrines or dogma that hold under a normal state of affairs is, again, missing the forest for the trees.

When Christ said, then "there shall be then great tribulation, such as hath not been from the beginning of the world until now, neither shall be," he wasn't kidding. We are not dealing with a normal state of affairs, with conditions that applied to the prior two plus centuries of the Church.

Because of its incredible relevance to us and our times, I quote Paul IV's opening of cuм Ex in full:

Quote

By virtue of the Apostolic office which, despite our unworthiness, has been entrusted to Us by God, We are responsible for the general care of the flock of the Lord. Because of this, in order that the flock may be faithfully guarded and beneficially directed, We are bound to be diligently watchful after the manner of a vigilant Shepherd and to ensure most carefully that certain people who consider the study of the truth beneath them should be driven out of the sheepfold of Christ and no longer continue to disseminate error from positions of authority. We refer in particular to those who in this age, impelled by their sinfulness and supported by their cunning, are attacking with unusual learning and malice the discipline of the orthodox Faith, and who, moreover, by perverting the import of Holy Scripture, are striving to rend the unity of the Catholic Church and the seamless tunic of the Lord.

1.In assessing Our duty and the situation now prevailing, We have been weighed upon by the thought that a matter of this kind [i.e. error in respect of the Faith] is so grave and so dangerous that the Roman Pontiff,who is the representative upon earth of God and our God and Lord Jesus Christ, who holds the fulness of power over peoples and kingdoms, who may judge all and be judged by none in this world, may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith. Remembering also that, where danger is greater, it must more fully and more diligently be counteracted, We have been concerned lest false prophets or others, even if they have only secular jurisdiction, should wretchedly ensnare the souls of the simple, and drag with them into perdition, destruction and damnation countless peoples committed to their care and rule, either in spiritual or in temporal matters; and We have been concerned also lest it may befall Us to see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of by the prophet Daniel, in the holy place. In view of this, Our desire has been to fulfil our Pastoral duty, insofar as, with the help of God, We are able, so as to arrest the foxes who are occupying themselves in the destruction of the vineyard of the Lord and to keep the wolves from the sheepfolds, lest We seem to be dumb watchdogs that cannot bark and lest We perish with the wicked husbandman and be compared with the hireling.

https://www.dailycatholic.org/cuмexapo.htm

Stubborn · « **Reply #21 on:** **Today** at 10:24:53 AM »

Quote from: DecemRationis on Today at 06:20:29 AM

Argument over whether cuм Ex is infallible or not is a waste of time.....

You're veering off topic. cuм ex was essentially only used as a prime example by +Fessler of a pope's teaching that is not infallible, but never the less is taught that it is infallible by those who should know better. Hence the title of this thread. I referenced Fr. Fenton's teaching to demonstrate exactly this - he is one who should have known better.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: The True and the False Infallibility of the Popes (Read 953 times)

DecemRationis

Re: The True and the False Infallibility of the Popes

Stubborn

Re: The True and the False Infallibility of the Popes